Sun/shade requirements of Acers

[w0nderland]

A fellow Brit, not many of us on here. .
You should start a topic on it, if you like. And people could probably tell you about your soil and its suitability. And you can post plenty of pics. It may be of the red leafed cultivar, so they should always be red. I do like those maples, the red amazing leaves on the older whitened bark look awesome.

Edit: whoops, turned out you did, my bad!

Ah I know, everyone is talking about scorching weather and all that and here we are with a bit of a mess going on!
Yes I did, It's still super young and I'm practicing what I like to call benign neglect, because I have a massive habit of getting super excited and doing things I shouldn't way too early unless I do a healthy ignoring (watering, checking it's okay and then going)
It's got some scars and stubs from branch cuts from the previous owner which I'm not happy about but for now just leaving it otherwise i'll mess with it and probably not be able to fix the damage. The colours are wonderful though! I can't wait for it to have a big enough trunk

Good luck with yours! Asda are selling super young maple trees (probably 1-3 years) which i'm thinking of buying just so I have a few trees in the future to fiddle with!

 

[coh]

The leaf damage doesn't look like sun scorch to me. Some of the leaves look chlorotic (pale, veins showing markedly), others look spotty. Both can be caused by overwatering.

Yes, exactly...as I commented in the "water butt" thread. Can be caused by over-watering or under-fertilizing or a trace element imbalance. If this tree was being watered only with rain water and no added fertilizer for a month or so (which is what I seem to remember from previous posts), it doesn't surprise me that the leaves are starting to look like this.

The most likely cause, based on (1) newer leaves being affected, older leaves ok, (2) the chlorotic pattern (pale leaves but dark veins) is iron deficiency...which can be caused by pH problems (not likely if using rainwater), lack of trace elements in the soil (more likely if you haven't been fertilizing), or (3) soil too wet/roots inhibited or damaged.

Pay careful attention to the amount of water and how wet the soil is. You can try the chopstick method, insert a chopstick deep into the growing medium and check it daily. As long as it is damp you probably don't need to water. Don't wait for it to get bone dry, though. Watering is tricky. Also, as rockm suggested, it would probably be good to get a stronger fertilizer (miracle gro 20-20-20 or something similar) and use that. Make sure it has iron as a trace element.

I have several maples, I give them lots of sun but in this climate day time temps rarely exceed 90 F, and average 75-85 during the summer. I rarely get leaf scorch.

 

[ConorDash]

Yes, exactly...as I commented in the "water butt" thread. Can be caused by over-watering or under-fertilizing or a trace element imbalance. If this tree was being watered only with rain water and no added fertilizer for a month or so (which is what I seem to remember from previous posts), it doesn't surprise me that the leaves are starting to look like this.

The most likely cause, based on (1) newer leaves being affected, older leaves ok, (2) the chlorotic pattern (pale leaves but dark veins) is iron deficiency...which can be caused by pH problems (not likely if using rainwater), lack of trace elements in the soil (more likely if you haven't been fertilizing), or (3) soil too wet/roots inhibited or damaged.

Pay careful attention to the amount of water and how wet the soil is. You can try the chopstick method, insert a chopstick deep into the growing medium and check it daily. As long as it is damp you probably don't need to water. Don't wait for it to get bone dry, though. Watering is tricky. Also, as rockm suggested, it would probably be good to get a stronger fertilizer (miracle gro 20-20-20 or something similar) and use that. Make sure it has iron as a trace element.

I have several maples, I give them lots of sun but in this climate day time temps rarely exceed 90 F, and average 75-85 during the summer. I rarely get leaf scorch.

I have been looking forward to your reply @coh .
I did get a chopstick out, I will take to that method more and do that. I didn't think it was likely but maybe I've gone from under watering to over watching in one foul swoop, however if I have, I can't imagine the affects would have been seen yet. I've seen many varying techniques people use for the chopstick, but I was thinking of leaving it in overnight then in the morning, checking it. And doing that daily, maybe even once in morning and once at night..?

I will go get miracle grow. I've seen many many people mention it now so I'll get me some, today or tomorrow and use it. Thank you for that suggestion @coh and @rockm .

Our temperatures here in the South east of UK reach max of about 20-25c, rarely. Which is 70-75f. So that's how hot our sun can get, and that's if there aren't any clouds.

 

[ConorDash]

If this were a sun exposure issue, the new growth wouldn't be so strong and it would be crispy and stunted. The colors on the new growth indicate to me, at least, that its not getting too much sun.

The leaf damage doesn't look like sun scorch to me. Some of the leaves look chlorotic (pale, veins showing markedly), others look spotty. Both can be caused by overwatering.

and FWIW, I would use the same prepared fertilizers that are used for gardening. I use Peter's, Miracle-Grow, or whatever is on sale at the garden center. The bonsai-specific stuff you're using is not necessary and at half strength, mostly useless.

Also, misting a plant is NOT necessary AND may be adding to your leaf problems, especially if you're misting in the evening. Wet leaves grow fungus and other crap, which could be the reason for the leaf damage

I'm not misting the maple at all. Was on the Chinese elm but not so much anymore as I'm learning a bit more about how pretty pointless it seems.
I will be more careful with the watering, trying the chopstick method and I will be getting that fertiliser .
I may ask you, when I get it, recommended dosage or frequency? If you don't mind divulging your secrets.
Coh did mention he believes it is chlorosis, so it is looking to be more and more likely. I'll be putting all these recommendations in to place, thank you, as always.

 

[rockm]

The "half strength" fertilizer thing is an old practice. It went out of favor a long time ago. Most everyone now uses full strength when they use prepared fertilizers. I only fertilize every two weeks or so. I add on depending on whether we've had a lot of rain/thunderstorms which will wash out fertilizers quickly. I would be careful if you're applying it more than that.

I also use high-performance organics like Bio-Gold and Green King at the same time. They stay on top of the soil and dissolve over time. The combination is pretty effective for me.

 

[ConorDash]

The "half strength" fertilizer thing is an old practice. It went out of favor a long time ago. Most everyone now uses full strength when they use prepared fertilizers. I only fertilize every two weeks or so. I add on depending on whether we've had a lot of rain/thunderstorms which will wash out fertilizers quickly. I would be careful if you're applying it more than that.

I also use high-performance organics like Bio-Gold and Green King at the same time. They stay on top of the soil and dissolve over time. The combination is pretty effective for me.

That sounds good, thank you.
I realise there will always be differing opinions, at both ends of the spectrum for everything.. And it's up to you, after sometime to make your own mind up, but once in a while, I'll just say ok and do whatever the hell someone tells me to lol. Because eventually it gets a bit overwhelming. Plenty of people have said the same as you so I'll go with your technique and recommendations. Cheers.

 

[rockm]

I have been looking forward to your reply @coh .
I did get a chopstick out, I will take to that method more and do that. I didn't think it was likely but maybe I've gone from under watering to over watching in one foul swoop, however if I have, I can't imagine the affects would have been seen yet. I've seen many varying techniques people use for the chopstick, but I was thinking of leaving it in overnight then in the morning, checking it. And doing that daily, maybe even once in morning and once at night..?

I will go get miracle grow. I've seen many many people mention it now so I'll get me some, today or tomorrow and use it. Thank you for that suggestion @coh and @rockm .

Our temperatures here in the South east of UK reach max of about 20-25c, rarely. Which is 70-75f. So that's how hot our sun can get, and that's if there aren't any clouds.

Seventy is our low nighttime temp in June. Seventy five is our low nighttime temp in July. My Japanese maples are in dappled afternoon shade after June arrives. Japanese maples can handle high temps and even direct sun. They cannot handle direct sun all summer in the Southern U.S. where 90 and 100 degree days rule between May and September. The can crisp up quickly if they're in direct sun in a container here. That's how smart bonsai folks get deals on fried out maples in September at landscape nurseries...

The crispiness is worst with laceleaf and cutleaf varieties.

With summer temps like yours and your location much more Northern latitude, you're unlikely to have much issue with excessive sun exposure.

 

[GrimLore]

Plenty of people have said the same as you so I'll go with your technique and recommendations.

That will work but nobody mentioned that when you do apply liquid fertilizer do it 15 - 20 minutes after a full watering.

Grimmy

 

[thumblessprimate1]

My Orange Dream with some sun scorch just for reference and not to prove a point.

With some hot direct sun exposure. The shady part not so much harmed.


And more direct hot sun exposure.


Young tips with aplenty direct hot sun exposure.

 

[LanceMac10]

Here are three different JMs.....all in basically the same spot,(my driveway, black asphalt...I'm cruel!)......

Well, the one dude is up on the table, but it just means that much more sun.....cuz' of my fancy @sorce fence...

Top of a Coral bark....



Top of a @thumblessprimate1 Orange......dream......and some shaded growth......


Pine bark on my fancy table......the top is not as "yellow as it seems...lighting issues....




Some do better in "full sun" than others.....when you water, try tilting the container to see if additional water will continue to run-off....I like to figure out if any container I use might not drain as well as I think it does......ohh.....and don't worry so much @ConorDash .....you'll be grey like me before your due!! And don't love your tree to deth,

Useless post complete!! March on!!!

 

[Vin]

Here are three different JMs.....all in basically the same spot,(my driveway, black asphalt...I'm cruel!)......

Some do better in "full sun" than others.....when you water, try tilting the container to see if additional water will continue to run-off....I like to figure out if any container I use might not drain as well as I think it does......ohh.....and don't worry so much @ConorDash .....you'll be grey like me before your due!! And don't love your tree to deth,

Useless post complete!! March on!!!

Not useless at all.

 

[ConorDash]

My Orange Dream with some sun scorch just for reference and not to prove a point.

With some hot direct sun exposure. The shady part not so much harmed.
View attachment 109768

And more direct hot sun exposure.
View attachment 109769

Young tips with aplenty direct hot sun exposure.
View attachment 109770

I don't know whether you aRe saying this is leaf scorch or not, but if it is, then it does seem to mean mine isn't that. It looks like a very different kind of issue affecting the leaves, like the other guys have said, this "chlorosis".
Thank you for the pics .

 

[ConorDash]

That will work but nobody mentioned that when you do apply liquid fertilizer do it 15 - 20 minutes after a full watering.

Grimmy

Yes, well, this may sound incredibly dumb but the liquid fert is mixed in with water so I just thought that when I used it, it would also be watering it... At the same time.. I didn't think it'd be necessary to water it before hand..
Does that sound silly? Lol

 

[ConorDash]

Interestingly, one of the branches, in the pic I attached. You can clearly see the crispy issue its having developing on the older leaves but as you go down the branch it's all healthy looking. I'll keep an eye on that one branch in particular to judge whether it's continuing to spread or not.

By the way I'm not pruning this maple at all at the moment. Just letting it go till Autumn, and when the leaves fall off, I'll do my pruning then so I can see the branch structure fully and even do any hard pruning if necessary, to then see the result in spring.

Got some miracle grow, water soluble. 24-8-16, was no 20-20-20, but I'm told this is a common mix also. Does seem unbalanced compared to the 20-20-20 suggested but, I hope it's just as good. I'll give the male its first feed of that around Wednesday.

 

[cbroad]

I think your maple definitely has a nutrient issue, either too much or too little, I saw very little burning on your leaves. Do you know what kind of soil mix is being used? From the pictures it looks like some grit and peat moss. If it's all grit, it's probably a nutrient deficiency because you're flushing the soil every time you water. If you have peat moss, or any other 'soil' like medium mixed in then it can hold more nutrients and any issues would be slower to show. If there is an excess of fertilzer there would probably be white build up around the drain holes. Excessive watering with peat based soils could still flush the nutrients away, but you would probably have a fungal/bacterial problem (black or brown wilted new growth) before any nutrient deficiency would show.

At anytime does your water, watering can, or storage container come in contact with any chemicals? Even water collected from a roof could have chemicals leeched in. Any chemical in excess, including nutrients, can swing the pH of the 'soil' and any swings too far in any direction can cause nutrient lockout. Basically the plants can't take up nutrients, and a symptom would show. If you're confident there's no issue with the water and nothing funky is going in it then your probably fine.

What's probably happening is that you have a tree with decent-fast draining soil and it's nutrients have been used or flushed out and it's low. I think it needed to be fed. I have an Amur Maple that did something similar this spring. I repotted it and it's new growth quickly turned chlorotic. I knew it had nutrients, couldn't figure it out so I just rolled with it (I used superthrive... thank you to whoever mentioned it doing that). It grew about a foot but everything was pale with dark veins. The leaves stayed turgid and there was no curling or abnormal growth so I just waited. It took a month at least but finally it all greened up. As long as the leaves are turgid and look otherwise healthy I would wait to see if it greens back up after fertilizing.

Also, your Maple could be Sango Kaku/coral bark. Leaves and new growth look very similar, you'll find out in the winter if the stems stay red.

Good luck with it though, but I think it will be fine. But if you kill it you have to buy two more to replace it...


Cbroad

 

[M. Frary]

That will work but nobody mentioned that when you do apply liquid fertilizer do it 15 - 20 minutes after a full watering.

Grimmy

And to really confuse the guy more,I wait until the trees are almost dry then hit them. I didn't water yesterday so I can go out and fertilize this morning. I'll soak them with a thick mix of miracle grow today then tomorrow evening I water. It's going to be sunny here today and tomorrow so they will suck it in.

 

[ConorDash]

And to really confuse the guy more,I wait until the trees are almost dry then hit them. I didn't water yesterday so I can go out and fertilize this morning. I'll soak them with a thick mix of miracle grow today then tomorrow evening I water. It's going to be sunny here today and tomorrow so they will suck it in.

That makes sense. Currently I'm giving it a bit of a drought to try and get rid of springtail bugs in the soil. So maybe tonight or tomorrow morning I'll use miracle grow on it.
I replied to cbroad via pm by the way.

 

[ConorDash]

Just an update on how this is going. The issue spread to basically all leaves, but it is continuing to have new growth. I'm not sure I would call the growth vigorous, but I have a good few weeks before I HOPE to see the affects of watering and fertising strategies taking good affect on the leaves. I have seen some of the issues still developing on new growth, but Im hoping that is only because the fert hasn't had enough time to do its job yet.



This is all under the impression that the nutrient deficiency caused the issue, which may be wrong, never know...
My worst fear is that this issue goes deeper than just leaves, and is in the roots... But so far, from peoples opinions expressed here, it doesn't seem likely.

 

[don b]

Hope your fert therapy does the trick mate! It did for mine. Good luck!

 

[ConorDash]

Hope your fert therapy does the trick mate! It did for mine. Good luck!

Did yours have a similar looking issue?
If so, I'd love to see a pic if you took one? It'd perhaps backup the theory of what exactly is the problem with it, if yours looked the same.