Sun/shade requirements of Acers

[M. Frary]

As I said, I've not been fertilising so that could well be the root cause of these problems. Did so yesterday with liquid fertiliser, will again in roughly 2 weeks

If it's in open bonsai type soil you should fertilize more.
I use miracle grow. Or whatever is cheapest. I mix it 2 or 4 sometimes 5 times the amount it says on the box. Every week. Sometimes twice a week.
Like Lance said. Feed that thing.

 

[petegreg]

SORRY FOR BIG POST. A bit of an opinion and I know a lot of people on here like kaizen and graham so I was careful with my words..

I agree. But I have to be honest, surprisingly so far he hasn't really been very good in that regard. Let me explain..

He is well known, I've watched a lot of his videos and a lot of people on here, like yourself vouch for him, he is a reputable dealer and that's mainly why I trust him and think he is reputable too and why I buy from kaizen at all. I trust the mix that my tree is in, is adequate and its care etc.
But, as I say I must be honest, so far he has been less than informational to me.. I've spoken to him over a few emails and one phone call. I originally enquirer about this tree over email but never got a reply so I called and then on the phone he found my email and spoke to me about it, he was ok on the phone, gave me some info, never particularly friendly but that's no fault of his, people are all different, us Englishman are certainly far from the most cheerful people in the world! So far after that I have emailed twice after that, once asking if he knew the trees rough age and the next time was after I received no reply from that first one (good few weeks), today, asking if they had any additional info like its age or cultivar. I even said in the emails I'm happy if he doesn't have that type of info, but a reply either way is appreciated.. Just so far it's not been particularly great service :/.

I don't expect much from them in the way of aftercare, anything is a bonus. I'm happy to do my own research and gain it all myself through conversations on his forum too, just so far not great from him. Anyways, maybe it's just a busy period for them, maybe he is off sick, no idea but that's my experience so far.

And no my first tree wasn't bought from him, otherwise I would have gotten a much better elm than I did lol, my elm is very much a mallsai and bit crap, but good for beginner and learning.

You know Conor, he is probably busy, has got a lot of customers...he provides more than standard services and care no only to his partners and customers. But I think you must know his pages and blog. Actually he's got a great thing to deal with: http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/blog/2016/06/brexit-and-eu-orders/

 

[ConorDash]

You know Conor, he is probably busy, has got a lot of customers...he provides more than standard services and care no only to his partners and customers. But I think you must know his pages and blog. Actually he's got a great thing to deal with: http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/blog/2016/06/brexit-and-eu-orders/

Yeh, in a post a little further down the page I said he may just be busy, maybe you are right. I'm fine with a delayed reply, just if the reply comes at all, that is.
I've heard about his controversy rants in blogs by others, not read his blog myself.
Personally, reading what I have on the EU goings on recently, I don't believe we will be pulling out of the EU.
In The space of 3 days, we have signed a petition with over 2 million signatures, for another vote because people my age and slightly older were too stupid the first time and didn't know what they were doing... (Stupid not being my opinion but driven by other facts that were brought up in the news). I personally didn't vote, I don't like all the politics and news, I stay away from it.
Anyways, let's not go in to that .

 

[ConorDash]

If it's in open bonsai type soil you should fertilize more.
I use miracle grow. Or whatever is cheapest. I mix it 2 or 4 sometimes 5 times the amount it says on the box. Every week. Sometimes twice a week.
Like Lance said. Feed that thing.

I'm believing that more and more, and I think I'll get rid of my current liquid fertiliser and go for something else. Pellets maybe, Kaizen has some that they are very proud of, I just need to do some more research on it before going for it either way. Might ask guys on here, their opinions on liquid over pellets or cakes etc. I know the topic is a massive one, so I wouldn't want to dive in to it any deeper, just recommend frequency and brands.
The one I use at the moment, chrysal, I feel like it's diluted too much. It's 5ml for every litre of water. My measuring jug is 1/2litre, which is what I make up at a time. That's 2.5ml of fertiliser.. Is it me or is that extremely tiny??

 

[ConorDash]

I had leaf scorch on some leaves in the past, and switching soils seems to have coincided with better leaves. I switched to Akadama/ pumice/lava a couple years ago with the ones in Bonsai pots and they hold up really well! But I have many in potting soil, cuttings transplanted to a few other mixes I am working with this year- pumice and pine bark straigh Akadama... Been experimenting to find an easy mix to transplant cuttings into... Overall though, I think it is water (a big part of it), and my yard has decent protection from wind usually- fence on two sides, house on another... On really windy days, a swirling breeze is still consistent where most of them sit (can't stop air from moving if you a re outside, but you can slow it down and diffuse it a bit!) but it seems to shelter them From the consistent unhindered wind which can dry out and damage leaves in a hurry on Maples! ESPECIALLY on such hot days! The ones in the ground are in full sun and wholly unprotected from wind though and they are fine also... By the Fall, I will probably have some scorched leaves if I don't leaf prune, but right now, all is fine.
I do get deformed new growth leaves on some/ many JM once it gets this hot. I have heard this blamed on everything from fungus to too much N in my ferts... But I think it just the damn heat! JM just don't like really hot weather and I think they send out kind of scrubby deformed growth- if they grow at all- in the full heat of summer. Seems to happen with the late Spring/ early Summer growth. By mid-summer they almost go dormant, and the late summer/ Fall "second flush" of growth seems to come out fine usually...

I have had issues with a few Tridents I cannot seem to figure out this year. Leaves looking scorched on some and a few with bunched up, curled up leaves on new growth tips, with a black residue around the new shoots... It ain't pretty! The old leaves are fine though! I dosed them up with some Bayer, removed the ugly growth (sterilized the Hell out of the shears after pruning) and I am waiting to see if they come out with better looking new growth. Most of my Tridents are fine, but 2-3 of them are showing this little issue... I am going over to Ken's tomorrow for a bit, I am going to ask him if he knows what it might be... (No- before someone asks me- I am not taking the sickly ones with me, that would not be nice to take a sick tree someone else's garden LOL)

We do almost have the same climate i guess. Dark and raining one day and too hot the other. It is unlikely to have issues when more constant weather, even in full sun. For now i keep them in full sun with minimal damage, but they stop growing in the few weeks it is to warm. I'll try this year iff it's better under shade. My teacher says for maples 70% is good. Watering or spraying the foliage is not a problem IF your roots are providing moisture. So when the tree is dry, water the soil first and wait 10 minutes, then do the foliage, they love it. When providing full shade, make sure they are protected between 12 and 16h.

Thanks for the info guys. It sounds to me like Maples are far from easy. I'm sure there are always these kinda debates of care with every species. As long as it is leaf scorch that I have, and it doesn't spread further then I'm happy with it, as a first timer. It won't cause any long term damage and by end of Autumn, the leaves will drop anyway (which I'm looking forward to, to see its branch structure and see what work I can do).
I'll probably repot in early spring, just before or as the buds start to form (gotta confirm that with further research about timings for maple).
And @Eric Group , the cat litter mixture has been highly recommended for my air layered Chinese elm, and sounds like it'd be similar to what you are saying with pumice, akadama, lava. Have you looked at that at all? Readily and easily available brands of the right one in big stores, cheap, and many have attested to it working well.

 

[MACH5]

Conor once you get the hang of it, you'll be amazed as to how easy they are to grow, specially where you are. They are weeds... honest!

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

Conor once you get the hang of it, you'll be amazed as to how easy they are to grow, specially where you are. They are weeds... honest!

Yep, sensitive but when you treat them right the reward is great...

 

[petegreg]

Conor once you get the hang of it, you'll be amazed as to how easy they are to grow, specially where you are. They are weeds... honest!

Cannot agree more. Almost every spieces have some specialties, jap. maples are easier ones.

 

[ConorDash]

Conor once you get the hang of it, you'll be amazed as to how easy they are to grow, specially where you are. They are weeds... honest!

Yep, sensitive but when you treat them right the reward is great...

I hope I can get to that point then . I think if I can get through winter with them both healthy, it'll give me a good confidence boast for sure. Winter is the big scary thing at the moment, for a beginner, as you can imagine,

 

[MACH5]

Conor you will! Don't over think it and keep it simple. Get a few starter inexpensive maples and play and experiment with them. Get yourself familiar with the species if you like them so much and see how they react to your methods and techniques. Don't be afraid to make mistakes and kill a few. That's part of the price we all have paid and the only way to really learn.

You are asking questions and seems like doing your research. Keep at it mate!

 

[ConorDash]

Conor you will! Don't over think it and keep it simple. Get a few starter inexpensive maples and play and experiment with them. Get yourself familiar with the species if you like them so much and see how they react to your methods and techniques. Don't be afraid to make mistakes and kill a few. That's part of the price we all have paid and the only way to really learn.

You are asking questions and seems like doing your research. Keep at it mate!

That's exactly what I'm afraid of lol. I have these 2 for now, this maple I quite like so I'd rather not kill it but my Chinese elm that I'm air layering.... Eh, slightly less caring.
I'm gonna get through winter, through to spring, to give myself a confidence boast if they live! Then look for cheap nursery stock and get a good number to work on.
Also maybe yamadori nearby.

Oh Graham replied by the way, via email. Simply said it's an Acer Palmatum (already knew), grown from nursery stock (not quite sure what that means if I'm honest, as in, from seed?) and was owned by an elderly gentleman previously, so I think that's signs that it was quite well kept and cared for.

 

[ConorDash]

Hello again.

I think the problem is slightly spreading... Still doesn't seem major and I can't tell if it's only on new growth or existing.

It's being watered plenty, till it just starts to drip out the bottom. The water being used is collected rainwater. Was fertilised less than a week ago so I have not yet fertilised again, however my next one will have a 2x dosage of the liquid fert. (I posted recently with detailed info on the fert I'm using, in case anyone would like to know more, (large post, 3/4 of the way down the page): http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/water-butt-system.23929/page-3#post-367477)

It is in a lot less sun than before, but still getting a good number of hours sun (when the sun comes out that is) and it is sheltered from the wind.

If this is simply leaf scorch and it's just a case of letting it runs its course, it won't do any perm damage to the tree, aside from it being unsightly, then feel free to tell me to stop worrying . There may be no further advice to give, that hasn't already been given in this topic and it's simply doing its best, but I wouldn't know.

Any advice appreciated, as it is always is.

 

[Vin]

Hello again.

I think the problem is slightly spreading... Still doesn't seem major and I can't tell if it's only on new growth or existing.

It's being watered plenty, till it just starts to drip out the bottom. The water being used is collected rainwater. Was fertilised less than a week ago so I have not yet fertilised again, however my next one will have a 2x dosage of the liquid fert. (I posted recently with detailed info on the fert I'm using, in case anyone would like to know more, (large post, 3/4 of the way down the page): http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/water-butt-system.23929/page-3#post-367477)

It is in a lot less sun than before, but still getting a good number of hours sun (when the sun comes out that is) and it is sheltered from the wind.

If this is simply leaf scorch and it's just a case of letting it runs its course, it won't do any perm damage to the tree, aside from it being unsightly, then feel free to tell me to stop worrying . There may be no further advice to give, that hasn't already been given in this topic and it's simply doing its best, but I wouldn't know.

Any advice appreciated, as it is always is.

It's fine. Welcome to the frustrating world of Japanese Maples. When you can master the issues with them, it'll be smooth sailing. Until then, it's just a game of getting it right.

 

[GrimLore]

I'll probably repot in early spring, just before or as the buds start to form (gotta confirm that with further research about timings for maple).

I bet you don't need to repot...

but still getting a good number of hours sun (when the sun comes out that is) and it is sheltered from the wind.

Sheltered from the wind is good, plenty of Sun is not... A mature Maple in the ground can take full Sun, not so in potted Maples - different game. Currently I have seven small test Maples growing underneath a large red landscape Maple in between it and a fence. They get very little filtered sun, almost none... They look good and grow nicely.

Grimmy

 

[w0nderland]

This topic is amazing, I have my little maple who seems to be struggling in this mess of English weather, I am getting similar issues. All of my leaves are red, fairly bright red but some are veering near the brown side just on the tips. It was in fairly full sun now moved to a more shaded area, only get's sun from probably about 5pm until sunset, so not as harsh on it I guess.

I think my issue is not enough water, and poor soil.

 

[ConorDash]

It's fine. Welcome to the frustrating world of Japanese Maples. When you can master the issues with them, it'll be smooth sailing. Until then, it's just a game of getting it right.

I'm happy with that, if that's the case. As long as I'm not slowly killing them, but I'm confident that the care I'm giving is all good.

I bet you don't need to repot...



Sheltered from the wind is good, plenty of Sun is not... A mature Maple in the ground can take full Sun, not so in potted Maples - different game. Currently I have seven small test Maples growing underneath a large red landscape Maple in between it and a fence. They get very little filtered sun, almost none... They look good and grow nicely.

Grimmy

The repotting isn't so much necessity, I would just like to, personally for a mix of my choosing that I've researched. As long as it's not going to cause any problems to the tree, I'd do it. If it would be any problem to it, i won't. Do you think repotting would cause problems, that won't be outweighed by positives?

See this is where I'm getting the biggest conflicts! I've had multiple people respond saying they keep theirs in full sun, in much hotter sun than what my little island gets, so this is the problem lol. I'm happy to keep in much more shaded sun, just gotta find my balance I guess, due to the conflicting opinions. I'm glad you said that though, it's good to know.

Sounds very picturesque, small maples under a large ground grown maple tree. I'd love a picture of it all, if you can sometime? sounds great.

 

[ConorDash]

This topic is amazing, I have my little maple who seems to be struggling in this mess of English weather, I am getting similar issues. All of my leaves are red, fairly bright red but some are veering near the brown side just on the tips. It was in fairly full sun now moved to a more shaded area, only get's sun from probably about 5pm until sunset, so not as harsh on it I guess.

I think my issue is not enough water, and poor soil.

A fellow Brit, not many of us on here. .
You should start a topic on it, if you like. And people could probably tell you about your soil and its suitability. And you can post plenty of pics. It may be of the red leafed cultivar, so they should always be red. I do like those maples, the red amazing leaves on the older whitened bark look awesome.

Edit: whoops, turned out you did, my bad!

 

[thumblessprimate1]

See this is where I'm getting the biggest conflicts! I've had multiple people respond saying they keep theirs in full sun, in much hotter sun than what my little island gets, so this is the problem lol. I'm happy to keep in much more shaded sun, just gotta find my balance I guess, due to the conflicting opinions. I'm glad you said that though, it's good to know.

I had been into collecting Japanese maples at one time. Maybe I haven't completely given it up. Even in other forums, there have been people who've tried to tell others to leave their Japanese maples in full sun all day, just because they themselves did that. It really depends on how hot that sun can get for you at your location. It can get too hot here in Dallas, Texas. My landscape maples are in dappled sunlight or indirect sunlight. My potted ones get moved around to get full sun, BUT when the temperature gets above mid 80s F, I move them to cooler spots. They can handle a few hours of full sun even. Temperature above 100F, I might have to up the cool factor by providing even more shade.

 

[rockm]

Hello again.

I think the problem is slightly spreading... Still doesn't seem major and I can't tell if it's only on new growth or existing.

It's being watered plenty, till it just starts to drip out the bottom. The water being used is collected rainwater. Was fertilised less than a week ago so I have not yet fertilised again, however my next one will have a 2x dosage of the liquid fert. (I posted recently with detailed info on the fert I'm using, in case anyone would like to know more, (large post, 3/4 of the way down the page): http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/water-butt-system.23929/page-3#post-367477)

It is in a lot less sun than before, but still getting a good number of hours sun (when the sun comes out that is) and it is sheltered from the wind.

If this is simply leaf scorch and it's just a case of letting it runs its course, it won't do any perm damage to the tree, aside from it being unsightly, then feel free to tell me to stop worrying . There may be no further advice to give, that hasn't already been given in this topic and it's simply doing its best, but I wouldn't know.

Any advice appreciated, as it is always is.





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If this were a sun exposure issue, the new growth wouldn't be so strong and it would be crispy and stunted. The colors on the new growth indicate to me, at least, that its not getting too much sun.

The leaf damage doesn't look like sun scorch to me. Some of the leaves look chlorotic (pale, veins showing markedly), others look spotty. Both can be caused by overwatering.

and FWIW, I would use the same prepared fertilizers that are used for gardening. I use Peter's, Miracle-Grow, or whatever is on sale at the garden center. The bonsai-specific stuff you're using is not necessary and at half strength, mostly useless.

Also, misting a plant is NOT necessary AND may be adding to your leaf problems, especially if you're misting in the evening. Wet leaves grow fungus and other crap, which could be the reason for the leaf damage

 

[Vin]

I had been into collecting Japanese maples at one time. Maybe I haven't completely given it up. Even in other forums, there have been people who've tried to tell others to leave their Japanese maples in full sun all day, just because they themselves did that. It really depends on how hot that sun can get for you at your location. It can get too hot here in Dallas, Texas. My landscape maples are in dappled sunlight or indirect sunlight. My potted ones get moved around to get full sun, BUT when the temperature gets above mid 80s F, I move them to cooler spots. They can handle a few hours of full sun even. Temperature above 100F, I might have to up the cool factor by providing even more shade.

The other issue is, and I'm sure you'll agree, different varieties handle the sun differently. One may be able to leave some varieties in the sun longer than others.

@ConorDash When it gets down to it, Japanese Maples can be quite happy living their life in dappled shade. We put them in full sun to keep the internodes tighter for better ramification. It's a bonsai thing, nothing more.