Summer Repotting

[sorce]

I'd like to know what folks think about the difference between potting an airlayer in summer and repotting a tree.

In reading this thread about layer removal, I got thinking about how it's the same thing.

Same questions....should I cut it back, how many roots? Blah blah.

I consider removing Airlayers much more stressful a process to survive than repotting. We do this all the time with no thought at all. Usually successfully, and no one bats an eye.

But because of the Human Argument involved in "repotting times", we fill our heads with bullshit lies that make is think we can't do it.

It's all in our heads.

Is it not?

Sorce

 

[barrosinc]

I consider removing Airlayers much more stressful a process to survive than repotting. We do this all the time with no thought at all. Usually successfully, and no one bats an eye.

I always thought about this exact point and tried to convince myself is that those fleshy white thick roots from airlayers are better at absorbing water. I will like to read about this in the book.

 

[Starfox]

Well I have also repotted two more trees since last post an Acacia and a Melaleuca although they needed less root work than the Callistemons.

Interestingly I have been listening to some of the Mirai podcasts where it´s Troy and Lime catching up with various people at the trophy and if you listen to the one with Rafael and Deyssa from Bonsai Sense in Mallorca they talk about Olives. About 30 minutes in they talk about the best time to repot them and specifically say the best time is June when the proper hot weather arrives.

This corresponds with the advice I have read about repotting Australian natives in the warmer weather too which I have been doing for a few years after struggling keeping them healthy with early spring repotting and now since waiting for the hotter weather I have not lost one.

Make of it what you will and it may not be best practice for conifers and deciduous but it does seem to work very well for the type of broadleaf evergreens that thrive in a mediterrainien climate.

 

[Shibui]

I find that most Australian species do far better when repotted in late spring or early summer, even if they are in full growth mode. They do very poorly when repotted at the traditional late winter repot time. This seems to apply to many Mediterranean species with olive a good example. Many of the trees I dig and repot have really radical root reductions and survive and even thrive at this early summer window.
Wondering why these plants prefer to have root reduction at this time while others do not?
I can also root prune seedlings and cuttings in summer when I pot them up. They rarely miss a beat after. Maybe this is just an age thing?
That sent me to experiment with summer root pruning for trident maples ( I have plenty of expendable small maples). Many drop leaves soon after root pruning but soon bud up and grow well after. No deaths so far but all have been young, vigorous trees.
I have been told that sub tropical growers successfully repot Chinese elms any time of year. Chinese elm never loses leaves or stops growing in warmer climates. I have not tried down here in cooler conditions but would like to try to repot Chinese elm in summer?
I believe there is still much to be discovered by those willing to take a risk and work outside the traditional practices.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I know a small sample size, but here are a few wild cherry weeds that sprung up in the garden. I nearly bear rooted. That’s right, not bare rooted, bear rooted. I pretty much tore them out of the ground with a shovel and clipped back the roots with some garden clippers. The ones I chopped and put some cut paste on all have buds a few weeks later. The one I was more careful with the roots and left the whole top on is crispy and no signs of buds. It was hot sun when I did the work.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

To add a bow on top of this thread...

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'd like to know what folks think about the difference between potting an airlayer in summer and repotting a tree.

In reading this thread about layer removal, I got thinking about how it's the same thing.

Same questions....should I cut it back, how many roots? Blah blah.

I consider removing Airlayers much more stressful a process to survive than repotting. We do this all the time with no thought at all. Usually successfully, and no one bats an eye.

But because of the Human Argument involved in "repotting times", we fill our heads with bullshit lies that make is think we can't do it.

It's all in our heads.

Is it not?

Sorce

An air layer was hormonally and mechanically forced to produce roots. These are young roots, with no root cells older than the air layer itself. This translates to more pluripotent cells per root surface area compared to established plants.
It's the same process but with different material.
If you wax a 1 year old kids head, the hair will grow back. If you wax a 70 year old, you can bet that there will be some bald spots that never fill in. Both have to do with hormone balance and the organisms age.

The real comparison should be removing an air layer in spring vs. summer and the percentual survival rate. I think those survival rates would probably line up with spring vs. summer repotting.

It's not in our head.

Plants can do better than we expect and they're way more resilient than most bonsai practitioners will admit. I agree on that.

 

[cmeg1]

I repot frequently from mud to hydro perlite when I buy stock trees sometimes in hopes of propagating.I flush hard and completely emerse or flush whole plant to remove any pests.Usuallyfulvic acid and kelp.
I usually nip roots by 25%......very lightly....they always survive....of course in a tent too with a constant 60% humidity and only light breeze.
Did it to a shishigashira last evening.
I also have started using Roots Excellurator by house and garden.Is said to eliminate root rot/fungus...or prevent...I think caustic potash is the magic ingrediant...needs stored in aluminum containers........sometimes encounter root fungus growing in trays indoors.......especially if you bring in a plant from soil.Best to elevate the pots out of the water.........can tell a plant has it when it gets deficiencies as the root ph fluctuates wildly when infected I was told.

 

[sorce]

This was Time Capsuled...because of....BVF...

So if it dies it's his fault too! Just kidding. That would be stupid. And.....it's not gonna die!

I think readjusting transpiration, so there is more providing than there is letting go, aka...nore roots than folaige....is key.

This juuuust started regrowing leaves for the post Solstice run too. I shoulda caught it dormant, but I'm not too late. Key.

Lived in a "proper root pruning" basket prior. Key.

Details at thread Ulmus Pole to dos. "Ulmus Pole".




No worries.

Sorce

 

[Cable]

Two years in a row now I've repotted and styled junipers in early June. Only lost 1 so far and that one was nearly barerooted just to see how far I could push the envelope. The rest were cut down from nursery pots 50% or more. I plan to do more junipers once I see active growth stop. Maybe this weekend?

 

[sorce]

Maybe this weekend?

I think you'll be ok with active growth. I wouldn't wait passed the weekend. That's already moon late.

Sorce

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Back to beating a dead horse.

Local Climate & Microclimate is everything. You are oblivious if you think repotting in July is the same in Texas and Michigan.

I can repot in summer BECAUSE my climate allows doing so. I'm in a mild summer climate. I could not image any but the most oblivious of fool thinking July is a good time to repot in Texas or most southern states.

Do not listen to @sorce for repotting advise if you live in a hot summer southern climate. By the same token, @Brian Van Fleet has no idea what we can get away with in northern Illinois and Michigan. This summer is the first summer in 5 years that we have had a day time high over 90F. Half the houses around me do not have air conditioning. We don't usually need it.

I try not to give repotting advise to people who live in radically different climates from my own.

I will continue to repot my pines, spruce & many other trees in middle of August, but don't do what I do unless you understand how similar or different your climate is to mine, and make adjustments accordingly.

Second dead horse to beat.
Species matters. Some species put out new roots any time they are in active growth, for example Ficus, and many tropical and subtropical trees. Repot these in summer.

Some temperate climate trees, only produce roots at specific times of the year. In flushes. These are best repotted just before the flush of root growth. Example, maples, put out a flush of roots in early spring. Then limited root budding afterwards. The only time ideal for repotting maples is in late winter, early spring. All else is risky.

So pretending species doesn't matter in the discussion of summer repotting is being oblivious also. Species does matter.

You must understand both your own climate and the species at hand.

 

[sorce]

Do not listen to @sorce for repotting advise if you live in a hot summer southern climate.

Why you gotta say that?

Don't do what I do sure, but I'm not telling people to do foolish things.

Unfortunately, I feel like this thread is a detriment to the idea of summer Repotting. Across climates.

If people actually listened to the important details of the process, they would probably find success.

I wish someone could articulate the scientific reason a tree can be lifted here in summer, and not elsewhere.

If roots don't grow down there in summer, I get it.
Don't we know this information?
If roots grow, repotting is possible.

Does no one observe root growth below Blue Island?

Repot before you know your roots grow.
Simple. That's all I'm saying.

Sorce

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Why you gotta say that?

Don't do what I do sure, but I'm not telling people to do foolish things.

Unfortunately, I feel like this thread is a detriment to the idea of summer Repotting. Across climates.

If people actually listened to the important details of the process, they would probably find success.

I wish someone could articulate the scientific reason a tree can be lifted here in summer, and not elsewhere.

If roots don't grow down there in summer, I get it.
Don't we know this information?
If roots grow, repotting is possible.

Does no one observe root growth below Blue Island?

Repot before you know your roots grow.
Simple. That's all I'm saying.

Sorce

Sorce, you know I love you, but I know you have never been in Dallas-Fort Worth in July. I spent a lifetime there one summer. It almost killed me. I was substituting for a lab tech at a chem manufacturer. Imagine a factory warehouse without air conditioning, and heat pouring off mix tanks, as a result of reaction products. 24 foot ceilings helped, but when it is 110 F outside, it is considerably warmer on the shop floor. Luckily, lab instruments required cooler temps, so the lab and offices had good air conditioning. Just walking in to the shop floor, to grab samples, or on top of rail cars to get samples, or on top of tank wagons was life threatening. Or seemed life threatening to this northerner. We'd start at 6 am to beat the heat. Knock off at 2 pm. Come back at 7 pm if overtime was needed. July is brutal down in Texas. If corporate would have tolerated it, they would have only worked nights.

I tried digging in the ground in July. Almost nothing grows in that heat, everything just barely hangs on to survive.

No amount of telling people to be observant and look for the signs of this or that is really adequate when advising a newbie. To be helpful, you need to know their climate, and actually how trees respond to it. That is why I do not tell people in Texas when or how to repot their trees. I know enough to know I don't have a clue.

It's just not reasonable to expect a newbie to "see the signs" you speak of, and know that the repotting you are talking about as summer repotting in Chicago, should happen maybe in October, because October in Dallas is more like early-middle August in Chicago.

I find it best to let people with experience in their local Climate tell beginners in their same climate, when it is best to repot.

 

[BrianBay9]

I'm not sure how this fits into the discussion, but I had a large pot with 30 - 40 sprouted acorns from Quercus agrifolia. They had pushed and hardened their third growth spurt and I divided them into individual pots or small groups. No root work, but I guess some root stress while teasing them apart. Almost half of them died within a week. My high temp was 72 F, lows in the 50's. Fog most nights. I guess I need to wait until year two to screw around with coast live oak seedlings.

 

[sorce]

know you have never been in Dallas-Fort Worth in July

It was Lubbock.

just not reasonable to expect a newbie to "see the signs" you speak of,

It's no more unreasonable than how I was misled for years thinking "as the buds swell" wasn't complete bullshit.

Armed with that knowledge I do my best to promote this observation, because it is the only thing one can count on.

Now...about that wood kiln!

Sorce

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Back to beating a dead horse.
By the same token, @Brian Van Fleet has no idea what we can get away with in northern Illinois and Michigan.

Born and raised in Warerloo, Iowa, I have some idea...which is partly why I’m not there anymore! Bonsai is REALLY hard to do well in harsh climates, especially if you’re playing with trees outside your climate zone.

 

[sorce]

Because repotting in spring is gay....



I decided to clown around and Repot my 2 Siberian Elms I got from @M. Frary in the hot.



Both in extremely poor health due to heaping amounts of neglect and no time....and bitch ass pill bugs in the soil. And slugs.

They both went into baskets and Godzilla Mix.

If they live I'll layer a new roots later.

They'll live.

Cuz gangsters Repot in summer. Blip.

Sorce

 

[Traken]

They'll live.

Cuz gangsters Repot in summer. Blip.

Sorce

Well... and Siberian Elms are weeds that love the abuse. lol. Dug one from Leo's farm last year in late July with zero roots on it, and it's alive and kicking this year. Those things are stubborn.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

As a tree develops, hence becomes more valuable, at least more valuable in terms of your personal investment of time, even if the tree was free. As a tree becomes more valuable, it is important to not take risks. It is important to do what is "guaranteed" to work. Practice different variations in timing of repotting on the less valuable stock, see what works.

Stick to what you know works for your more valuable stock.

Local Climate, and how the species you are working with reacts to your climate, makes all the difference in the world.