Master Discussion: Summer and Fall Collecting and Repotting

[wireme]

If you search for "podcast app" along with whatever kind of phone you have, you should easily find the right app, then just search for mirai, or anything else you are interested in. There is also the Bonsai Network Podcast from Bjorn, but he hasn't added anything in almost a year. Once you subscribe to a podcast it will download new episodes to your phone so you can listen away from wifi. Podcasts have saved my sanity during my commute, as listening to the same five songs on the radio or keeping up with current news would drive me crazy.

Ha, many years ago my truck radio quit working and I didn’t bother fixing it. I’ve gotten entirely used to just the rattle of the old girl and no music or radio.

Thank you, I really should do this, I don’t think bonsai podcasts would be very popular in the home so driving would be the time to do it.

 

[TN_Jim]

Ha, many years ago my truck radio quit working and I didn’t bother fixing it. I’ve gotten entirely used to just the rattle of the old girl and no music or radio.

Thank you, I really should do this, I don’t think bonsai podcasts would be very popular in the home so driving would be the time to do it.

Josh is spot on. Awhile back I found a free podcast app through my phone App Store called overcast...download, hit that plus sign in top right to search, type bonsai and you’ll find several. I download them directly to my phone. Good stuff. Some of the Mirai I have listened to more than once. If you get it, telperion farms one is great too and on this same collection track.
The one I have looks like this:

 

[Johnathan]

I envy you guys with great collection spots.... Oklahoma is flat and useless

 

[a0kalittlema0n]

Definitely been the best way for me both times I went out west collecting...but I only have my experience to go on...

Details please! As many as you can think of to help inform!

So can you collect in late summer/fall, sure. Just like the elm in the pile of dead trees, just like the erc I posted above collected in summer 3 yrs ago, just like the one I collected two weeks ago... My point is, is the best time to collect here, now? In my experience, no. I have consistently tried over the past three years with a variety of species and techniques and the ongoing theme has been -this is not the optimal time, or just plain mortality... Yet I see a thread on sweetgum collection in summer etc. and boom, not great again and again.

That said. Of the many (~50) trees I have collected “in season” over the past three years, I have only lost two. So should I collect because I can?...or when it is best?

I’m not trying to wave some flag here, if I could collect in summer or fall with the same success I would. Someone please show me how. Until then, my personal (and moral) choice is to not condone it.
Thanks

Great response, thanks a ton. I too don't personally collect in Fall, but if I understood the reasoning, mechanics, technique, timing, and situation I definitely would, hence this post

This may be a bit of an eastern US vs western US thing. When I've been collecting in the Rockies I have enjoyed thousands of tree that are wild bonsai gems that I could never hope to get out of the rock. Short of using dynamite they'll stay where they are, at least until the next wildfire roars through. I find maybe 1 in a thousand that I can collect. When I'm done, the landscape looks identical to when I arrived. At my last great collecting site I took 10 trees over two sessions. The year after the area burned in a major wildfire killing all that were left. Could say I stole 10 natural wonders from the western mountains. Could say I saved 10 trees that are still alive and sparking joy in people that view them.

This so much. I live near the Cajon Pass and everytime I hike near there I think "Surely this tree could be saved from next year's fire..." I mean why keep me from taking a tree that will be burned within the next 3 years -_-

I am sure you are right and I have no experience with the west. Also, large ranging fires are pretty rare on the east coast, usually. In your instance I can say I am glad that you "saved " your trees but there is no way you could have predicted the fire. (I don't think so anyway)

Large ranging fires are extremely common on the west coast, more particularly in California. I could almost guarantee a large fire to happen within the next 2 years (not necessarily where I personally am, but within the southern half of California) so, I'm with @BrianBay9 on this one. I just saw a 40 acre parcel full of California Junipers get burned down about 3 months ago, not to mention the other 40 acres of them that have been bulldozed for construction (this literally kills me when I miss the construction... )

 

[meushi]

Having relocated, I don't have a dedicated winter protection for collected trees yet... so I haven’t collected anything this fall. However, I have lifted the following off the ground in the second half of August:

• a mugo pine, repotted in a colander
• two itoigawa junipers, one repotted in a colander and one in a large pot
• a field maple, repotted in a pond basket
• a Norway maple, repotted in a pond basket
• a young hawthorn, repotted in a large pot
• young cherry trees, repotted in large pots

The hawthorn lost all its leaves, and pushed new growth… all within a two weeks period.
The cherry trees didn’t skip a beat.
The field maple didn’t skip a beat.
The Norway maple has lost a couple of leaves, and grown some more.
Both itoigawa junipers have produced new roots after being repotted. The large itoigawa has lost some weak foliage. The smaller itoigawa hadn’t produced any roots in the prior 3 years in the ground.
The mugo pine has produced a lot of new roots, which have reached out of the colander already (in 6 weeks!). So far, it has only lost the 3 years old foliage, and some weak interior shoots.

 

[a0kalittlema0n]

I had someone request a type of list of things that can be answered rather than having a bunch of anecdotes to try and pull everything from. Here is a list of things I thought could be answered, if anyone has other things to add lmk. Also why can't I seem to edit my initial post? I thought I could do that...

What is the tree species?
What month did you collect in?
Where are you located?
Where did you collect from (altitude, humidity conditions, temperatures, etc.)?
What differences between the collection area and the recovery area were there (humidity, wind, sun, temperature, seasonal difference, etc.)?
Have you previously collected this species successfully?
Was there rain in the previous month before collection?
Was this a planned collection or an opportunity-based collection?
Did you specifically choose Fall collection over Spring collection?
Was the tree bare rooted from collection?
Was the root ball mostly undisturbed or was it dug up and severely disturbed?
What % of the roots did you remove/prune (if any, mostly talking about potting it up or balancing of roots to foliage)?
Did you submerge the tree in water at all (If so, how long and any care like changing out the water, etc.)?
What was the soil type of the collection area (compacted desert dirt, wet highly organic, near a stream, sandy, etc.)?

Aftercare:
What was the tree planted/heeled in?
How often was the tree watered (or what indicator did you use to water)?
Was the tree protected from wind (if so how)?
Was the tree protected from freezing temperatures (if so how)?
Was the tree put in full sun, partial sun, or full shade (elaboration is great if needed)?
Was the tree placed on the ground in its post-collection container?
Did you experience any cold damage that became visible in the Spring (dieback, root damage)?


Deciduous:
Was the tree in leaf?
If so, had the leaf color changed before collection?
Did you defoliate/partially defoliate/prune to balance root:shoot ratio?
Did the leaves drop off the tree if you didn't defoliate and regrow new leaves?

Broadleaf Evergreen:
Was the tree in leaf?
Did you defoliate/partially defoliate/prune to balance root:shoot ratio?
Did the leaves drop off the tree if you didn't defoliate and regrow new leaves?

Conifer and Evergreen:
Was any foliage taken off or pruned at all?
Did you mist regularly during the recovery process (mostly for Junipers)?
Did you lose any needles or foliage?

 

[sorce]

The Moon.

#1 IMO for cycles of root growth.

Sorce

 

[BobbyLane]

well, there is some great info here, information and results from seasoned collectors/experts on tree collection, guys who GET SHIT DONE. some big names thrown about. but what i want to know is....we are now approaching winter, the title reads late summer and fall collecting....was a SINGLE tree collected by the OP during the later summer/fall period? if so, can we see some pictures please? or are we waiting until late summer/fall 2020

 

[FedericoMelis]

I had someone request a type of list of things that can be answered rather than having a bunch of anecdotes to try and pull everything from. Here is a list of things I thought could be answered, if anyone has other things to add lmk. Also why can't I seem to edit my initial post? I thought I could do that...

What is the tree species?
What month did you collect in?
Where are you located?
Where did you collect from (altitude, humidity conditions, temperatures, etc.)?
What differences between the collection area and the recovery area were there (humidity, wind, sun, temperature, seasonal difference, etc.)?
Have you previously collected this species successfully?
Was there rain in the previous month before collection?
Was this a planned collection or an opportunity-based collection?
Did you specifically choose Fall collection over Spring collection?
Was the tree bare rooted from collection?
Was the root ball mostly undisturbed or was it dug up and severely disturbed?
What % of the roots did you remove/prune (if any, mostly talking about potting it up or balancing of roots to foliage)?
Did you submerge the tree in water at all (If so, how long and any care like changing out the water, etc.)?
What was the soil type of the collection area (compacted desert dirt, wet highly organic, near a stream, sandy, etc.)?

Aftercare:
What was the tree planted/heeled in?
How often was the tree watered (or what indicator did you use to water)?
Was the tree protected from wind (if so how)?
Was the tree protected from freezing temperatures (if so how)?
Was the tree put in full sun, partial sun, or full shade (elaboration is great if needed)?
Was the tree placed on the ground in its post-collection container?
Did you experience any cold damage that became visible in the Spring (dieback, root damage)?


Deciduous:
Was the tree in leaf?
If so, had the leaf color changed before collection?
Did you defoliate/partially defoliate/prune to balance root:shoot ratio?
Did the leaves drop off the tree if you didn't defoliate and regrow new leaves?

Broadleaf Evergreen:
Was the tree in leaf?
Did you defoliate/partially defoliate/prune to balance root:shoot ratio?
Did the leaves drop off the tree if you didn't defoliate and regrow new leaves?

Conifer and Evergreen:
Was any foliage taken off or pruned at all?
Did you mist regularly during the recovery process (mostly for Junipers)?
Did you lose any needles or foliage?

Hi
I collect almost whole year around, including June, July, August, September etc. , my teacher has been doing the same on a much bigger scale for years.

Tree species are mostly wild olives, phillyrea angustifolia and myrtle, but also junipers and others.
I will talk about olives since I'm more experienced in those

I'm from Sardinia island, Italy (zone 9/10)
Collecting from anywhere from sea level to 1000 meters (best specimens are usually found near sea level)
Sometimes it does not rain for a month before collection, no big deal
I collect the tree with almost no root at all, always bare rooted, usually I just dig enough to cut at the main root and pull out the plant, and that's it!

Defoliate fully on the spot and prune, sometimes very drastically, or partially on the spot and the rest at home.
I wrap the roots with wet clothes and plastic, bag the whole tree and keep it wet until i get home.
When I'm home I submerge the tree and defoliate, until next day or the day after.

Plant in full pomice in wooden boxes or big plastic pots with added holes, moss on top all around the trunk

I water with some Radifarm added and put the tree in a dedicated greenhouse, on the floor
Greenhouse has a shade cloth and a misting system, I keep humidity EXTREMELY high (key point)
Some Radifarm again after 10 days and that's it

No need for watering at that point,
new growth starts very soon and you can see roots everywhere, even aerial roots
when new growth is about 10cm long I pull the plant out in full morning sun,
watering depends on how vigorous the plant is, can be everyday, can be once a week.

After 2 months from collection I usually get 30cm long new shoots

 

[a0kalittlema0n]

@BrianBay9

"The Kincade Fire in Sonoma County has so far scorched more than 66,000 acres and destroyed nearly 100 structures. It was only 5% contained late Sunday, officials said, down from 10% over the weekend.
Driven by hurricane-force winds, the fire grew at a rate of one football field every three seconds when it first ignited on Wednesday, CNN's meteorologist Brandon Miller said.
Winds had slowed Sunday night but were still strong, reaching up to 25 mph around Napa, Vacaville and Santa Rosa while gusts reached 35 mph. The highest gust across the county Sunday was 93 mph, forecasters said."

8 currently active fires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_California_wildfires

aaaaaaaand:
2019 California wildfires. The 2019 wildfire season is the current-running fire season in California. So far, over 5,981 fires have been recorded according to Cal Fire and the US Forest Service, totaling an estimated of 170,857 acres (69,143 ha) acres of burned land as of October 13.
Total fires: 5,819
Total area: 162,693 acres (65,840 ha)

We burn forests better than the rest of the US combined...

 

[Underdog]

I collected a 12ft tall DogWood today. Was going to the burn pile otherwise so I dug it up. Got a nice flat root system about 24 inch diameter and 8 inch deep with a 5 inch trunk Easily reduced further in the spring I believe. If it lives... Tap root broke off clean accidentally before I got to it.
Planted in the veggy garden today with several guy wires and hope for life in spring.
I haven't been posting my collected stuff for a while as it seemed to be the kiss of death for the trees. Maybe just no pics will work till spring. Fingers crossed.

 

[kale]

OK, lots of questions. First, I lived in Colorado at the time. Trees were collected at about 7000 ft, and I lived at about 5500 ft elevation so they weren't that far off. I collected in the spring well into June because my spots still had snow cover until then. I would start again around October.

Picking the right tree for me meant finding that one in a hundred, or one in a thousand tree growing in a rocky ridge in a pocket in stone, but not locked tight into the cracks and crevasses. Such a tree, when rocked by the trunk, shows movement of the entire root ball around it. I might spend days looking for a tree, but I never spent more than 15 min getting a tree out - expose the root ball and cut one or two support roots. The tree went from a natural stone pocket to a box with very little trauma. I took off whatever native soil that came off easily and left the rest.

After care was burying the roots and the box in a bed of pea gravel on the north side of my house, protected from the wind, and misted regularly. I didn't do anything for at least a year, waiting until the tree showed strong growth to let me know it was ready. After that, I waited until the following year to mess with it. Some trees took only one season to get going. Some took three years.

Coloradoan here and wondering how the heck to get permission?

 

[BrianBay9]

Coloradoan here and wondering how the heck to get permission?

Contact your local National Forest office. Ask for transplant permits. They'll tell you where you can collect and how many trees you can take.

 

[BillsBayou]

There is a lake which is drained in the summer. That's when we can dig there.

 

[ghues]

I had someone request a type of list of things that can be answered rather than having a bunch of anecdotes to try and pull everything from. Here is a list of things I thought could be answered, if anyone has other things to add lmk. Also why can't I seem to edit my initial post? I thought I could do that...

What is the tree species? - Mountain Hemlock (Hm) yellow cedar(Yc) shore pine, balsam (lasiocarpa).
What month did you collect in? August through to October
Where are you located? PNW - Vancouver Island
Where did you collect from (altitude, humidity conditions, temperatures, etc.)? 5000’+ for all expect the shore pine 300-2000’)
What differences between the collection area and the recovery area were there (humidity, wind, sun, temperature, seasonal difference, etc.)? Huge, from 5000’ sub alpine to 200’.
Have you previously collected this species successfully? For years.
Was there rain in the previous month before collection? Depended on year.
Was this a planned collection or an opportunity-based collection? Yes
Did you specifically choose Fall collection over Spring collection? Yes 20’ snow in spring.
Was the tree bare rooted from collection? No.
Was the root ball mostly undisturbed or was it dug up and severely disturbed? Mostly und.
What % of the roots did you remove/prune (if any, mostly talking about potting it up or balancing of roots to foliage)? 80-90.
Did you submerge the tree in water at all (If so, how long and any care like changing out the water, etc.)? One which was very dry 3 whole days, others not so much.
What was the soil type of the collection area (compacted desert dirt, wet highly organic, near a stream, sandy, etc.)? Some in sandy loams (Pine), mostly organic (Hm/Bl).

Aftercare:
What was the tree planted/heeled in? Mix of pumice, sifted SeaSoil, red lava.
How often was the tree watered (or what indicator did you use to water)? Depends right, need to get the mis wet. we get a lot of rain in fall too
Was the tree protected from wind (if so how)? Somewhat area has fence close by.
Was the tree protected from freezing temperatures (if so how)? No.
Was the tree put in full sun, partial sun, or full shade (elaboration is great if needed)? Morning sun only.
Was the tree placed on the ground in its post-collection container? Yes.
Did you experience any cold damage that became visible in the Spring (dieback, root damage)? Mostly no but some winters the trees did suffer some desiccation.


Deciduous:
Was the tree in leaf?
If so, had the leaf color changed before collection?
Did you defoliate/partially defoliate/prune to balance root:shoot ratio?
Did the leaves drop off the tree if you didn't defoliate and regrow new leaves?

Broadleaf Evergreen:
Was the tree in leaf?
Did you defoliate/partially defoliate/prune to balance root:shoot ratio?
Did the leaves drop off the tree if you didn't defoliate and regrow new leaves?

Conifer and Evergreen:
Was any foliage taken off or pruned at all? No,
Did you mist regularly during the recovery process (mostly for Junipers)? No
Did you lose any needles or foliage? Only normal amounts.

 

[wireme]

What % of the roots did you remove/prune (if any, mostly talking about potting it up or balancing of roots to foliage)? 80-90.

Eh?
Typo?

 

[ghues]

Eh?
Typo?

Thanks for catching that.......Yes eh, goal is to extract tree with 80-90 of root ball and I usually do not remove any when putting into grow box unless they are dead.
Cheers

 

[Townes Van Tortoise]

So I collected a handful of California junipers late september/early October and all are healthy and growing. I purposely did not grab any trees of amazing quality, due to the fact I was unsure of the outcome. They were dug at a site where a friend bought property to build a small home and he plans on clearing parts of it, so I took the trees from there. I found a small one that isn't horrible looking except for the trunk being thin, and it doesn't have any deadwood. I repotted the small one in February (4-5 months recovery time) and was surprised to find basically the whole pot filled with new white roots about the thickness of the thicker spaghetti noodles. The pics I took are of low quality, because i was using a backup phone at the time. I have a couple of bigger ones that had a single trunk and decent taper with nice arrangement of branches but still no deadwood that I am going to let recover longer, but they are growing too. Don't know if this will help anyone, or just encourage other stubborn people to take them out of season, but I was just surprised to find such good results in such a short time. When this tree was collected there were maybe 3 roots and they were black in color. I thought it would die

 

[a0kalittlema0n]

Could you do me a favor and fill this out with anything I missed from your post?

What is the tree species? California Juniper
What month did you collect in? September / October
Where are you located? San Joaquin Valley, CA?
Where did you collect from (altitude, humidity conditions, temperatures, etc.)?
What differences between the collection area and the recovery area were there (humidity, wind, sun, temperature, seasonal difference, etc.)?
Have you previously collected this species successfully?
Was there rain in the previous month before collection?
Was this a planned collection or an opportunity-based collection?
Did you specifically choose Fall collection over Spring collection?
Was the tree bare rooted from collection?
Was the root ball mostly undisturbed or was it dug up and severely disturbed?
What % of the roots did you remove/prune (if any, mostly talking about potting it up or balancing of roots to foliage)?
Did you submerge the tree in water at all (If so, how long and any care like changing out the water, etc.)?
What was the soil type of the collection area (compacted desert dirt, wet highly organic, near a stream, sandy, etc.)?

Aftercare:
What was the tree planted/heeled in?
How often was the tree watered (or what indicator did you use to water)?
Was the tree protected from wind (if so how)?
Was the tree protected from freezing temperatures (if so how)?
Was the tree put in full sun, partial sun, or full shade (elaboration is great if needed)?
Was the tree placed on the ground in its post-collection container?
Did you experience any cold damage that became visible in the Spring (dieback, root damage)?


Deciduous:
Was the tree in leaf?
If so, had the leaf color changed before collection?
Did you defoliate/partially defoliate/prune to balance root:shoot ratio?
Did the leaves drop off the tree if you didn't defoliate and regrow new leaves?

Broadleaf Evergreen:
Was the tree in leaf?
Did you defoliate/partially defoliate/prune to balance root:shoot ratio?
Did the leaves drop off the tree if you didn't defoliate and regrow new leaves?

Conifer and Evergreen:
Was any foliage taken off or pruned at all?
Did you mist regularly during the recovery process (mostly for Junipers)?
Did you lose any needles or foliage?

 

[Townes Van Tortoise]

What is the tree species? California Juniper
What month did you collect in? September / October
Where are you located? San Joaquin Valley, CA?
Where did you collect from (altitude, humidity conditions, temperatures, etc.)?Mountains near tehachapi about 4000 ft. Sunny day.
What differences between the collection area and the recovery area were there (humidity, wind, sun, temperature, seasonal difference, etc.)?difference in altitude of about 3500 ft. The collection site in mountains probably receives more water from snowmelt and a little more precipitation and more weather extremes.
Have you previously collected this species successfully?Yes. I was unsuccessful the first attempt most likely due to aftercare, and I was succussessful In the spring of the same year this was collected
Was there rain in the previous month before collection?very doubtful but I'd have to look it up
Was this a planned collection or an opportunity-based collection?planned
Did you specifically choose Fall collection over Spring collection? no other than I wanted to attempt fall collection to see for myself
Was the tree bare rooted from collection Pretty much, ya
Was the root ball mostly undisturbed or was it dug up and severely disturbed?disturbed
What % of the roots did you remove/prune (if any, mostly talking about potting it up or balancing of roots to foliage)?i only trimmed the very tip of roots to have clean cut instead of tear
Did you submerge the tree in water at all (If so, how long and any care like changing out the water, etc. yes it was submerged in water and superthrive with sea grow for a few hours while I ate and prepared pots and soil.
What was the soil type of the collection area (compacted desert dirt, wet highly organic, near a stream, sandy, etc.)? Decomposed granite with thick layer of natural leaf mould compost

Aftercare:
What was the tree planted/heeled in?70%pumice, 15% perlite, 15% kellogs palm,citrus, and cactus potting soil
How often was the tree watered (or what indicator did you use to water)?same as other trees I have
Was the tree protected from wind (if so how)?my whole backyard seems to be somewhat protected due to fences and trees
Was the tree protected from freezing temperatures (if so how)?no, and freezing rarely occurs
Was the tree put in full sun, partial sun, or full shade (elaboration is great if needed)?full sun after first week or two
Was the tree placed on the ground in its post-collection container?no on bench
Did you experience any cold damage that became visible in the Spring (dieback, root damage)?No


Deciduous:
Was the tree in leaf?
If so, had the leaf color changed before collection?
Did you defoliate/partially defoliate/prune to balance root:shoot ratio?
Did the leaves drop off the tree if you didn't defoliate and regrow new leaves?

Broadleaf Evergreen:
Was the tree in leaf?
Did you defoliate/partially defoliate/prune to balance root:shoot ratio?
Did the leaves drop off the tree if you didn't defoliate and regrow new leaves?

Conifer and Evergreen:
Was any foliage taken off or pruned at all? no except maybe a little bit of dead or discolored foliage
Did you mist regularly during the recovery process (mostly for Junipers)?for a few weeks in beginning and every once in a while after
Did you lose any needles or foliage?no