Seiju Chop

[ColinFraser]

In addition to a field grown Trident Maple, I picked up this Seiju Elm at Muranaka's yesterday.



It had a decent little flare at the base, and was just starting to push buds at the top.



Unfortunately, just above those lowest "slingshot" branches it gets pretty awkward - especially the big bulge where most of the upper branches emerge.



I thought about an air layer, but decided the whole reason I was going to chop it is that I don't like that section; why would I spend more energy and time making a whole new tree out of the worst part of this one? I will try to grow the individual branches as cuttings though.



So, I cut back to a low branch that I hope will add movement and taper. I loosely wired it upward just a bit to smooth the curve out some. What do you think?

I guess the plan now is to let the new leader grow and thicken some, to heal the chop and smooth the transition. At the same time, I'll be hoping for a new bud to make a branch somewhere near the outside of that corner . . .

 

[Vin]

It looks good. You gotta do what you gotta do

 

[sorce]

Perfect move.

Do you need to use cutpaste there?
Maybe leave it off a while to allow a bud to form that branch you seek?

Sorce

 

[sorce]

I've seen springs at the bottom of elevator shafts smaller than that wire!

Joshing you.

I started using self annealed copper and the difference is outstanding!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

Way to take the plunge. Cutting it off there will work out fine. I probably would have cut lower but this is fine.
Your seiju is a back budding machine. If you get that nasty old paste off of your cut buds will form right out of the bark right there. Also a healthy seiju will push buds out all over the trunk and branch you left.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Take the wire off. A good growing season will have it standing upright without any extra help. Wire will only slow it down.

On the wire job, in addition to coiling it too tight (though I can understand the logic), your first wrap on the new branch placed the wire on the inside of the bend, creating a fulcrum instead of support to the outside of the bend.

I love seiju elms, but they aren't fun to grow unless you grow a good trunk, with taper and movement, then resign to clip and grow...with a lot of clipping! And don't worry, you'll get all the buds you want, everywhere you want them.

 

[JudyB]

You'll probably spend the rest of your year rubbing off new buds all up and down the trunk!!! A good problem to have. Nice start.

 

[ColinFraser]

Take the wire off. A good growing season will have it standing upright without any extra help. Wire will only slow it down.

On the wire job, in addition to coiling it too tight (though I can understand the logic), your first wrap on the new branch placed the wire on the inside of the bend, creating a fulcrum instead of support to the outside of the bend.

I love seiju elms, but they aren't fun to grow unless you grow a good trunk, with taper and movement, then resign to clip and grow...with a lot of clipping! And don't worry, you'll get all the buds you want, everywhere you want them.

Thanks for your help Brian. I understand about wire on the outside of a bend, but still have trouble sometimes getting it to end up there! Thankfully, I'll get lots of practice this spring.

Knowing that elm branches can be brittle and that I've already manipulated this one, I am a little afraid to mess with it again right away, even to remove the wire. Is that concern unfounded? Also, I was unaware that a lignified branch could change its direction and "stand up" as it grows. Does it really move, or does the thickening and new growth just give that impression (perhaps by adding more to one side than the other)? I would really hate for new growth to solidify the nearly 90-degree bend that was naturally there.

 

[M. Frary]

Thanks for your help Brian. I understand about wire on the outside of a bend, but still have trouble sometimes getting it to end up there! Thankfully, I'll get lots of practice this spring.

Knowing that elm branches can be brittle and that I've already manipulated this one, I am a little afraid to mess with it again right away, even to remove the wire. Is that concern unfounded? Also, I was unaware that a lignified branch could change its direction and "stand up" as it grows. Does it really move, or does the thickening and new growth just give that impression (perhaps by adding more to one side than the other)? I would really hate for new growth to solidify the nearly 90-degree bend that was naturally there.

Clip the wire off with cutters.
This elm is a little brittle but before wiring let it dry out a bit and pre bend the branch you want to bend. Just bend it back and forth a couple of times to limber it up.
The tree will absorb some of the abrupt change in direction as it fattens up.

 

[ColinFraser]

Sounds like I may be cleaning the cut paste off this morning. In my original post, third photo, the branch to the left at the bottom is the new lead. You can see that the trunk and righthand branch were both removed right there, essential leaving one large wound that rounds that bend. Should I keep some kind of sealant on the parts of it that I don't need a branch from, or just go ahead and expose the whole site?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Thanks for your help Brian. I understand about wire on the outside of a bend, but still have trouble sometimes getting it to end up there! Thankfully, I'll get lots of practice this spring.

Knowing that elm branches can be brittle and that I've already manipulated this one, I am a little afraid to mess with it again right away, even to remove the wire. Is that concern unfounded? Also, I was unaware that a lignified branch could change its direction and "stand up" as it grows. Does it really move, or does the thickening and new growth just give that impression (perhaps by adding more to one side than the other)? I would really hate for new growth to solidify the nearly 90-degree bend that was naturally there.

Don't worry, just cut it off with wire cutters. As long as you didn't visibly crack it, it will be fine.
Yes, branches can change shape after they're lignified. Look at this trident maple example; the photos were taken within 6 months of one another.

I didn't say it before, but I'd encourage you to really think about your final trunk shape on this tree. The chop is pretty high, for the relative diameter of trunk. I've been making a pretty concerted effort to chop lower to get better taper and movement from the base. It took me many years to become willing to make those tougher cuts, but it's worth it. I'll find a couple pix as examples...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Here, this should make you feel better. The first image is a trident maple I chopped and wired a new leader on; not unlike your seiju. The next image is the same tree, 12 years later. It's been in and out of the ground a few times, thread-grafted, chopped, and now it's finally developed a fat little trunk with taper and movement. I could have gotten here 5 years earlier, had I just chopped lower to begin with.

Bottom line, have a vision, based on trees you like, and don't be afraid to really chop low. It pays off later in spades.

 

[barrosinc]

Don't worry, just cut it off with wire cutters. As long as you didn't visibly crack it, it will be fine.
Yes, branches can change shape after they're lignified. Look at this trident maple example; the photos were taken within 6 months of one another.

I didn't say it before, but I'd encourage you to really think about your final trunk shape on this tree. The chop is pretty high, for the relative diameter of trunk. I've been making a pretty concerted effort to chop lower to get better taper and movement from the base. It took me many years to become willing to make those tougher cuts, but it's worth it. I'll find a couple pix as examples...

would you care to draw a line where you would have chopped?
I chopped a japanese maple like 2-3 inches above nebari, it had two internodes (no branches because I airlayered the top) and just died...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

would you care to draw a line where you would have chopped?
I chopped a japanese maple like 2-3 inches above nebari, it had two internodes (no branches because I airlayered the top) and just died...

Hard to say without seeing the base. You'd want to find the best front based on the nebari, and chop from there. If you're going for a shohin, I would probably chop it so the height is equal to the trunk width. For a taller tree, chop it so the height is 2-3x the width. You just don't want the taper and movement to start halfway up the trunk.

 

[barrosinc]

Thanks Brian

 

[0soyoung]

chopped a japanese maple like 2-3 inches above nebari, it had two internodes (no branches because I airlayered the top) and just died...

I did similarly once, but I only layered low and got a similar result. I figured that it was because the roots had starved, cut off from food for nearly a full growing season by the air layer girdle. Ever since, I've layered higher and not chopped lower until a strong branch has been established.

 

[barrosinc]

My thoughts exactly... I still thought it will send at least one bud... I should have grafted a branch lower beforehand.

 

[M. Frary]

Sounds like I may be cleaning the cut paste off this morning. In my original post, third photo, the branch to the left at the bottom is the new lead. You can see that the trunk and righthand branch were both removed right there, essential leaving one large wound that rounds that bend. Should I keep some kind of sealant on the parts of it that I don't need a branch from, or just go ahead and expose the whole site?

Expose the whole wound. Once a few buds that pop out there show up let them grow for a bit then pick one for the branch you want and cut off all of the rest. Get it going in the direction you want it to go early.

 

[amethystearth]

As others have mentioned, while you're chopping you might as well chop lower. These grow super slow. resign yourself to the long haul. Plenty of root space, sun, and feeding will help speed it along.

 

[sorce]

Thanks for your help Brian. I understand about wire on the outside of a bend, but still have trouble sometimes getting it to end up there.

I started using self annealed copper and the difference is outstanding!

Sorce

Prehensile tailed skinks!

Sorce