Satsuki Azalea "Chinzan" Repot

[Stan Kengai]

Here are just a few of Boon's students.

Michael Hagedorn: American Bonsai Artist and former Bonsai Potter living in Portland, OR. Founder of the Portland Bonsai Village. Apprenticed in Japan with Suzuki after studying with Boon. Teaches hundreds of students himself in Portland and across the country. Had a tree in the artisans cup and several of his students had trees in the show. http://crataegus.com

. . .

Peter Tea: American bonsai artist. Peter studied with Boon before his apprenticeship at Aichien Bonsai Garden. Now Peter is traveling the US teaching bonsai. https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com

There are a lot of considerations that go into bonsai substrate selection: climate, money, ability to water, availability, etc. While the people you've listed are very good artists and well respected within the bonsai community, there are two commonalities with almost all of these people. First, they had the money to take Boon's intensives, so likely make enough to afford higher priced substrates, especially considering a majority of them are bonsai professionals. Secondly, and more importantly, most of these people live in climates that are completely different from the person you are trying to give advice to. They, and you, have not experienced what happens to akadama and kanuma in the repeated summer thunderstorms and the damp freeze/thaw cycles of the Deep South. Most of these people live in moderate temperature and moderate to low rainfall areas. How do they, or you more specifically, know what soil substrates work best for a climate that is nothing like their/your own? And for different watering habits?

Stop trying to convert us to something that doesn't "work" for us, whether it be money, climate, availability or ability to water. Now, where is that ignore button.

 

[Andrew Robson]

There are a lot of considerations that go into bonsai substrate selection: climate, money, ability to water, availability, etc. While the people you've listed are very good artists and well respected within the bonsai community, there are two commonalities with almost all of these people. First, they had the money to take Boon's intensives, so likely make enough to afford higher priced substrates, especially considering a majority of them are bonsai professionals. Secondly, and more importantly, most of these people live in climates that are completely different from the person you are trying to give advice to. They, and you, have not experienced what happens to akadama and kanuma in the repeated summer thunderstorms and the damp freeze/thaw cycles of the Deep South. Most of these people live in moderate temperature and moderate to low rainfall areas. How do they, or you more specifically, know what soil substrates work best for a climate that is nothing like their/your own? And for different watering habits?

Stop trying to convert us to something that doesn't "work" for us, whether it be money, climate, availability or ability to water. Now, where is that ignore button.

1st Yes, there can be a lot of money involved with bonsai. However like Michael said in his post, soil is the number 1 place you want to focus your money on, because the roots are everything. Also, most of Boon's teaching are free, and available for you to read via Jonas on Bonsai Tonight. There is thousands of dollars of information there, completely free for everyone to read.

2nd I know several people in the climates you are talking about that have had a lot of success with the soils I am talking about, so I don't understand why they are mysteriously breaking down for people.

 

[Andrew Robson]

Couple apologies,

First, I would like to apologize to the OP for derailing the thread, I hope that its focus can get back to your nice little azalea!

Second, I would like to apologize to anyone I have offended with my rants on this thread. I get very passionate about bonsai and bonsai techniques, and let that take over me being nice to people sometimes. Like Michael said in his infamous post, "My main loyalty is to the trees", but I want to make it clear that I want all of us to be successful in our bonsai endeavors. That's why I get so passionate, because I want us all to succeed with strong and healthy trees.

I still feel very strongly about my position on bonsai soil, but I am sorry if I have offended anyone else's positions in the process of defending mine.

My deepest apologies to all,

Andrew

 

[coh]

It's funny, the other day some Jehovah's Witnesses came to the house. After I told them "not interested", I'm pretty sure the last thing I heard them say as I was shutting the door was "you should switch to Boon mix."

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Mullet,

You said that "Removing the buds makes no difference"... I'm wondering just when did you remove them?

On azalea I'm trying to grow out, I remove the flower buds as soon as I can detect them. Which for me last summer was June. They were very small. Rather a tedious process to get in there with sharp scissors to cut them off cleanly. But, I got them in the very early stages. Therefore, very little of the tree's energy went into producing the flower buds. If you wait until they're big, well, you're too late! The energy has already been spent!

Adair,

I have taken them off now around this time of the year when they are first forming and taken them off in the spring when starting to swell. I doesn't make any difference, at least in my experience.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

What do I consider bad information? This. This is very bad information.

Why think for yourself when the information of what works has already been proven? I'll tell you a quick story. Boon recently told me that while he was visiting Thailand, the local bonsai enthusiasts there were using terrible soil, and were extremely hesitant to change. Every time someone collected a native Gardenia and put it in the soil, the tree would die. Boon had a brave student try and use his soil mix, and the tree lived, and not only lived, it's growing better than ever.

I'm not going to debate with you on something that is proven to work better. It's like climate change, there will always be deniers. If you choose to deny what experts in the satsuki field have proven to work, then go ahead. I'm going to listen to the experts. They've done all the thinking for me in this aspect!

A Boon student and a climater changer, that explains it. God help us.

 

[0soyoung]

Clinically:

'confirmation bias'
'placebo effect'​

 

[Adair M]

Kanuba doesn't break down in N Georgia.
At least, not in one year.

 

[Dav4]

Kanuba doesn't break down in N Georgia.
At least, not in one year.

Now, is Kanuba a replacement for Kanuma? Can it be sourced locally???

 

[Dav4]

I kind of wish that all bonsaiists world wide, professional and hobbyists alike, would just go ahead and switch over to Akadama and Kanuma. I suspect that within a decade or so, the quarries in Japan would be spent and then we could all go back to using turface, turkey grit and fir bark...presto, no more soil debates.

By the way, I've recently committed to buying 10 bags of Akadama, so I'm doing my part.

 

[Andrew Robson]

A Boon student and a climater changer, that explains it. God help us.

Just as I do with my soil choice, I chose to listen to experts when it comes to climate change

Again, sorry all for any negativity that I caused. I hope this thread can get back on track to the OP's azalea.

 

[coh]

I kind of wish that all bonsaiists world wide, professional and hobbyists alike, would just go ahead and switch over to Akadama and Kanuma. I suspect that within a decade or so, the quarries in Japan would be spent and then we could all go back to using turface, turkey grit and fir bark...presto, no more soil debates.

It would be funny if that happened and the Japanese started importing turface as a soil component.

 

[mcpesq817]

I'd be a little careful about using straight kanuma if your water is on the acidic side. I don't grow azaleas, but a friend of mine did, and he said in our area, the acidic water plus acidic kanuma pushes the needle too far for azaleas. The guy had some very nice, large azaleas (along with other nice trees) so I have no reason to doubt him.

 

[johng]

Couple apologies,

First, I would like to apologize to the OP for derailing the thread, I hope that its focus can get back to your nice little azalea!

Second, I would like to apologize to anyone I have offended with my rants on this thread. I get very passionate about bonsai and bonsai techniques, and let that take over me being nice to people sometimes. Like Michael said in his infamous post, "My main loyalty is to the trees", but I want to make it clear that I want all of us to be successful in our bonsai endeavors. That's why I get so passionate, because I want us all to succeed with strong and healthy trees.

I still feel very strongly about my position on bonsai soil, but I am sorry if I have offended anyone else's positions in the process of defending mine.

My deepest apologies to all,

Andrew

no need for apologies...passion is a good thing! I don't believe any feelings have been hurt??

You are still avoiding addressing what I asked you to reflect on...and the questions of several others who have added to the discussion.

I completely respect Boon...I don't know Dave well enough to offer an informed opinion. Micheal is ok...I appreciate his trees not so much his ability to do demonstrations. I think people like Eric Schrader and Jonas are doing a great service for bonsai in general...I respect that and them very much.

So, rather than joining the long list of arrogant elitists SOBs that have been here before and said everything you are saying now over and over ad nauseam...perhaps you should follow the lead of Eric and Jonas and contribute some original and meaningful content! Folks are far more appreciative of what you've done as opposed to what you think you know.

That may mean applying what you have learned and taking some risk to "think for yourself" but at least then your passion could be appreciated...unlike how it is being received by this audience currently.

 

[fredman]

I've seen the comments before about kanuma/akadama breaking down turning into mush. I would like to know why it does that. Is that a general characteristic of it? Does it come in different levels of quality? Why does it work for some and not for others?

 

[Adair M]

I've only been using kanuma a couple years. It hasn't broken down for me. Can't speak to why it does for others.

I've been using akadama about 5 years. It does break down slowly. But it's supposed to. There are several brands of akadama. I guess from different mines. Personally, I like "Double Red Line". I think it's what some call "Hard" akadama.

Contrary to popular belief, akadama isn't "Fired" to make it hard. Like bonsai pots are fired. The stuff is heated to sterilize it.

I also have heard that the tsunami destroyed one of the better mines, so there was a bit of a scramble to find good akadama for a while.

In Japan, the stuff is cheap. $3 a bag. It's the shipping that runs the price up.

 

[fredman]

(I question one important point. If the flower buds are trimmed after they develop, hasn't the plant already expended the energy of making flowers?)

My thoughts exactly. If one wants growth, remove them as soon as they formed.
As for me.... Satsuki is all about their beautiful flowers. To me its about the journey I'm taking with my plant. Its whole existence (like us and animals alike) is to produce what its evolved to do... !!! I figure who the hell am I to deny it that one wish, it desires mostly, in favour of a little bit of growth, (I desire) that will mostly be shortened in any case....??? The professional growers will no doubt disagree strongly. They have a different focus and journey.
Anyway nice post Augustine

 

[JoeR]

I've only been using kanuma a couple years. It hasn't broken down for me. Can't speak to why it does for others.

I've been using akadama about 5 years. It does break down slowly. But it's supposed to. There are several brands of akadama. I guess from different mines. Personally, I like "Double Red Line". I think it's what some call "Hard" akadama.

Contrary to popular belief, akadama isn't "Fired" to make it hard. Like bonsai pots are fired. The stuff is heated to sterilize it.

I also have heard that the tsunami destroyed one of the better mines, so there was a bit of a scramble to find good akadama for a while.

In Japan, the stuff is cheap. $3 a bag. It's the shipping that runs the price up.

Wow at three dolars a bag maybe a vacation out there with some added baggage fees would be in order!

 

[fredman]

So might it be that the good stuff is used in Japan, and the "secondaries" are exported.....?
Might it be that the Master's $30 000 trees are wallowing in the good stuff, while the rest of the world is left in confusion over the left overs?

 

[Chuah]

I really don't know which one it is Chuah. No the soil isn't compacted. Its new bonsai soil mixed with peat moss in there.

Fredman,
Just want to get back to your post with the photos. It looks like the leaves in the third photo are not too healthy, don't know if it was due to camera effect. They appeared more yellowish and there were some brown sports. You may want to bring it to someone familiar with horticulture to find out the causes. Yellowish leaves might be caused by lack of minerals, usually iron and manganese, and also possible root rot and fungus. In the later case, the leaves will continue to wither and the tree will eventually die.

Hope to hear from you what happen to the mutated flowers next year. A learning experience for me.​