Satsuki Azalea "Chinzan" Repot

[fredman]

Will always be a Bok mate. Its written in the bone marrow. Good for you. Glad to hear that This years World cup is going to be a Biggie.....!

 

[Adair M]

Satsuki are native to Japan. The ones from Northern Japan have extremely small leaves. The ones from Southern Japan have more "normal" sized leaves. The Northern varieties are naturally more cold hardy.

Mullett, I'm sure you already know this, but others who may be following this thread, I'll discuss a bit about satsuki growth habits:

Satsuki, left to themselves, will have two growth spurts a season. Once before they bloom, then they take time off from growing to bloom, then they grow again. The second time they will also set buds for next year's blooms.

Other azaleas (kurume and Indica) bloom first, then grow vegetative growth.

Satsuki means "fifth month" in Japanese, which to us Westerners we interpret as "May", but the old Japanese calendar would have that time of year in our "June".

So...

If we are trying to develop branches and trunk on young bonsai stock, we want a longer growing period. If a Satsuki has no flower buds in early spring, it will not stop growing to flower. It will continue to grow. (There's no hormones to trigger the flowering process.). We can use this additional growing to cut back, which triggers more budding, and development of more twigging, if we want more ramification, or we can choose to let the branches run to develop trunk girth.

Most traditional gardening techniques for azalea are designed to maximize flower production, not trunk growth or branch structure.

To build the best bonsai, you have to sacrifice the flowers when the trees are young. Then, once you have built a proper bonsai, the flowers are the icing on the cake!

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Update:

I call this one Sippy, which is long for SIP, which is short for Stick In a Pot. Anyway, it grew like crazy this season. Here she is now:

 

[sorce]

She sippy?
Mrs. Sippy?
Not for long!
Sorce

 

[bunjin]

I have found that once an azalea is in its final sized(or close) container, it really makes a difference to take the buds off at least 2 out of 3 seasons. If at all possible I try to flick the buds off with a finger rather than cut them or use a tweezer. I think that if your soil mixture works well for you, stick with it. You seem to use a lot of non-organics which really helps root development in a Satsuki. I am in the middle of two year test project which will compare azalea growth habits with different soil mixtures. It will interesting to see if it validates what I have learned over the years or maybe I will learn something new.

 

[fredman]

Mullet. Interesting media you are using. Can you elaborate on your feeding for satsuki please...

 

[Mellow Mullet]

I have found that once an azalea is in its final sized(or close) container, it really makes a difference to take the buds off at least 2 out of 3 seasons. If at all possible I try to flick the buds off with a finger rather than cut them or use a tweezer. I think that if your soil mixture works well for you, stick with it. You seem to use a lot of non-organics which really helps root development in a Satsuki. I am in the middle of two year test project which will compare azalea growth habits with different soil mixtures. It will interesting to see if it validates what I have learned over the years or maybe I will learn something new.

I have not noticed any difference in whether the buds are removed or left on, they grow like weeds either way. I have experimented with removing buds and leaving them on and it really doesn't matter.

John

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Mullet. Interesting media you are using. Can you elaborate on your feeding for satsuki please...

I feed them about every other week with what ever liquid fertilizer (i.e., miracle grow) is on sale, during the growing season, like the rest of my trees. They seem to like it and respond well to it.

John

 

[fredman]

Interesting. I use Foliage Pro 9.3.6 on them. Won't a higher sulphur content liquid fertiliser be better for them?
Why I ask, I have a problem with the colours of my satsukis. Its much duller and not as well developed as two seasons ago. That makes me think a azalea fertiliser might be better for flower development. The foliage and general growth is good and still the same as in the past. Only the flowers are of lesser quality...
I got quite a few from a friend 3 years ago. The first year they flowered beautifully. Very bright colours. I grow them in bonsai soil 1.1.1. composted bark, pumice and gravel (all same size...1/4inch). The last 2 years the flowers are "different".
Here is a pic from one (not satsuki but it illustrates the problem best) Its still in it original pot the last 3 years.The first pic its red (last 2 years). Second pic (this year) its pink... This one is still in its original organic soil as I got it....




Any theories as to why it happens? What am I not doing right?

 

[Andrew Robson]

I'm telling you how the professionals in Japan do it.
If you want to keep doing what you're doing, fine with me.

Adair is absolutely correct. In highschool, I worked in Dave Kreutz's backyard during the summers. Dave probably imports the biggest amount of satsukis every year. He studied with a japanese satsuki master and continues to learn from satsuki growers every year that he visits to buy more trees.

What Dave and I do is twist the buds off when they start to swell. It turns out this produces the best results.

For an experiment once, I took four whips (Osakasuki), and tested whether letting them flower would affect growth. I let two flower every year, and twisted the buds on the other two. The ones that I didn't let flower grew almost twice as fast...

 

[fredman]

Here is another. I have it planted in a hollowed out pumice block....
The first 2 years...


This year

This year the colour is paler and even the shape is different...?
The stamen seems under developed to...?

 

[discusmike]

For all of you guys growing satsuki trunks out in bonsai pots,I hope your young,I tried growing one in pot for a few years when I first started,I got alot of leaves n branches but NO trunk girth!just my experience,good luck.

 

[Andrew Robson]

I've noticed a lot of bad azalea information on this forum. Let me say this:

YES, you can grow an azalea in just about any growing medium, and it will still grow. HOWEVER, Kanuma is best. Why? Because the trees grow the best in it. Do what you want, but Kobiashi wouldn't be potting his $30,000+ trees in kanuma if it didn't make a difference.

YES, you can still develop an azalea if you let if flower every year, but it will take more time to develop than when you twist the buds off.

I don't understand why certain people refuse to accept valuable and time-saving information from bonsai professionals. It makes no sense. Want to do bonsai well? Then look at what the professionals are doing, and copy them! I'm not aware of any respected bonsai professional in America still using turface for example. Gary Wood knows just about everything about growing Black Pines well, and has years of experience doing it, so listen when he says something!


Ok, my rant is over, but you get the point. People have made these mistakes before, so listen to what the current trends are and listen to the bonsai professionals you trust!

 

[fredman]

Yeah I second that Mike. It will take a few lifetimes I 'm sure...

I'm doing something terribly wrong. Look at this poor soul...I'm almost to ashamed to put up this pics (very bad azalea parenting).... Sorry for the bad last pic, but its badly under developed. Doesn't open fully and the edges of the flower is browned.
Before

Now

 

[Andrew Robson]

Yeah I second that Mike. It will take a few lifetimes I 'm sure...

I'm doing something terribly wrong. Look at this poor soul...I'm almost to ashamed to put up this pics....
Before
View attachment 84905
Now
View attachment 84906

Here is what you need to do in my opinion.

1. Don't let the tree flower, twist off the buds every spring when they start to swell.

2. Plant the tree in 100% kanuma, and cover with a small layer of sifted spagnuhm or yamagoki moss

3. Put the tree in a grow pot or box to let the roots grow.

4. let it grow for a couple years, cut it back, and repeat

I grew a cutting the size of yours into an 18 inch raft, with the main trunk being about 7 inches around at the base. It's still developing, but its grown so fast just by doing the 4 steps above.

 

[Cotyledon]

Turface = bad ? In America ?
Or just for azaleas?

 

[fredman]

No kanuma allowed into NZ Andrew. Only have pumice (LOTS of it) to play with. That's why I'm thinking a higher sulphur fertiliser...?

 

[Andrew Robson]

Turface = bad ? In America ?
Or just for azaleas?

Turface = Bad for everything (tridents seem to do okay in it, but will do better in a better mix)

You will still find people debate this to their death though

 

[Andrew Robson]

No kanuma allowed into NZ Andrew. Only have pumice (LOTS of it) to play with. That's why I'm thinking a higher sulphur fertiliser...?

Then I would suggest a mixture of pumice, lava, and akadama if you can.

if you can't, see who has the healthiest azalea bonsai there and do what they do.

 

[Cotyledon]

I knew that stuff was too cheap to be true