fredman
Masterpiece
No akadama either. What do you fertilise with...?
Satsuki Azalea "Chinzan" Repot
- Thread starter Mellow Mullet
- Start date
Andrew Robson
Shohin
I use biogold pellets on all my trees, and spray a light dose of seaweed and fish emulsion every other week during the growing season.
fredman
Masterpiece
You use kanuma which have the right acidity for azalea. Don't it make sense to use a higher sulphur for azalea when its not planted in kanuma?
Andrew Robson
Shohin
Give it some diluted miracid
Eric Group
Masterpiece
That is crazy! I JUST repotted a few ground layers in three different mixtures to do a similar experiment! I did one in 100% Kanuma, one in my normal Bonsai mix- Basically a lot like Boone's mix but heavy on Akadama, and one in my "potting soil" mix- a bunch of peat and perlite with a little compost and line bark and a little grit mixed in for weight and "substance". I marked the pots with date, soil description and cultivar (all are Miyuki). I want to record info on how they grow, bloom and their health...
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
What exactly do you consider "bad" information? I think that most of the information shared here is just and exchange between people as to what works for them. What works for one may not work for others, especially in a country like the US with a huge and variable climate.
The myth of kanuma being the best is just a load of crap. It does not work here, it will turn to mush in less than one summer. The mix I use in my area is actually superior to kanuma, at least in my area. I know, because I have done it. And, I don't care if there aren't any professionals that you know of that use turface, others find it useful. Perhaps the "pro's" should listen. I guess if Kobiashi used lama dung, you'd have one for a yard pet to have a supply.
Removing buds is a load of crap, too. Again, from personal observation, it makes no difference. I have tried it both ways and there just is no "redirection of energy". I, too, know individuals who studied in Japan and they said that they never removed the buds form azaleas for growth purposes. Sure, if you just don't care about flowers and want to prune year long, do it, but removing the buds will not instantly give more energy for growth.
Maybe think for your self once and see what happens, you might be surprised.
John
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Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
I
I have had this problem before, it was petal blight, a fungus. I now spray when the buds just show color, but are still tight, with Daconil or Bayer 3n1 and it keeps it from happening.
I am not sure about your question on sulfur, I have not used it or needed it. When my plants get a little yellow, I give them a pinch of ironite.
John
Yeah I second that Mike. It will take a few lifetimes I 'm sure...
I'm doing something terribly wrong. Look at this poor soul...I'm almost to ashamed to put up this pics (very bad azalea parenting)....Sorry for the bad last pic, but its badly under developed. Doesn't open fully and the edges of the flower is browned.
Before
View attachment 84905
Now
View attachment 84906
I have had this problem before, it was petal blight, a fungus. I now spray when the buds just show color, but are still tight, with Daconil or Bayer 3n1 and it keeps it from happening.
I am not sure about your question on sulfur, I have not used it or needed it. When my plants get a little yellow, I give them a pinch of ironite.
John
fredman
Masterpiece
Just mean all the dedicated azalea fertilizers has got a higher sulphur content...
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
It probably would not hurt to try
Hi Fredman,
There are many reasons why satsuki flowers change colors from one year to the next. One possibility relates to amount of fertilizer, i.e. amount absorbed. Attached is an example taken from a Japanese satsuki book. This is a Yata-no-kagami. The top left is a normal flower, the top right was caused by too much fertilizer, and the bottom right was caused by too little fertilizer. The flower became very pale.
I do not know what happened to your tree, just offering a possibility.
Fredman,Yeah I second that Mike. It will take a few lifetimes I 'm sure...
I'm doing something terribly wrong. Look at this poor soul...I'm almost to ashamed to put up this pics (very bad azalea parenting)....
Before
View attachment 84905
Now
View attachment 84906
Again my two cents. One reason flower buds turned brown before opening is too much overhead watering when the buds were swelling. Overhead watering on blooming flowers also caused brown spots and them rotting away. Suggest next year you only water the soil, perhaps also sprayed the young buds with fungicide, and see it that still occurs or not.
fredman
Masterpiece
Yeah it all goes back to proper horticultural practises. I'm thinking of going completely organic. Found a very good complete fertiliser made locally. Will do it for a season and see what results I get. The key is what you said above... "amount absorbed"
Here is the fert....
https://www.fertnz.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/SynerLogic.pdf
Here is the fert....
https://www.fertnz.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/SynerLogic.pdf
Mullet,
You said that "Removing the buds makes no difference"... I'm wondering just when did you remove them?
On azalea I'm trying to grow out, I remove the flower buds as soon as I can detect them. Which for me last summer was June. They were very small. Rather a tedious process to get in there with sharp scissors to cut them off cleanly. But, I got them in the very early stages. Therefore, very little of the tree's energy went into producing the flower buds. If you wait until they're big, well, you're too late! The energy has already been spent!
You said that "Removing the buds makes no difference"... I'm wondering just when did you remove them?
On azalea I'm trying to grow out, I remove the flower buds as soon as I can detect them. Which for me last summer was June. They were very small. Rather a tedious process to get in there with sharp scissors to cut them off cleanly. But, I got them in the very early stages. Therefore, very little of the tree's energy went into producing the flower buds. If you wait until they're big, well, you're too late! The energy has already been spent!
Eric Group
Masterpiece
There are lots of soils that would have the right acidity. Peat moss works great for azaleas, and it just happens to be one of the primary ingredients in almost every high quality potting soil known to man.
Yep- I just told a guy to put his trees is POTTING SOIL. Somebody please burn me at the stake... Along with all the crispy critter ex- bonsai that died because their care givers tried to get too "fancy" with an inorganic mix they did not understand how to use!
I mix my own potting mix from bales of peat, perlite and a few other ingredients, mix in a bit of slow release organic frets... I plant EVERY TYPE OF TREE I OWN in it, and they grow like champs. Potting soil- pro mix, Hell Miracle grow is the HEAT!! It just costs a ton- provides plenty of nutrients and moisture which is what you want if you want a tree to be healthy and GROW. Once you have the kind of trunk you want, and you are ready to start reducing the root ball, you encourage a more compact root ball consisting of fine roots if you use these fancy inorganic soil components, which provides for a looser soil that introduces more air- more air= happier roots... that is important for a mature tree to survive in a very small pot, and that is why people recommend these kinds of components for Bonsai. Until they are IN A BONSAI POT though, grow the trees in what they are supposed to grow in- DIRT!
IMO That is the core of the majority of the "bad advice" we see given on this forum... A good bit of It is usually not really bad advice, it is more taken out of context. Someone reads that "Kanuma is best for azaleas"- great, let me go wash all the soil off the roots of my azaleas I am growing out in 3 gallon containers, and replace it with Kanuma! Oh... Wait... That will cost me about $2,000 for DIRT, and the trees won't grow any better? So... Kanuma must be snake oil then? No... It is suitable for a Bonsai that is far along in it's development and it makes a great BONSAI SOIL... Not going to be any better In a 3 gallon pot probably than the potting mix they were growing in! So, take advice in the content it is being provided for...
IMO, your trees need to be planted in larger containers with better dirt (or in the ground), they need more nutrients, more water and are probably either severely pot bound or in soil that is not nearly acidic enough which makes it difficult for them to absorb the nutrients they need to be healthy. Sure, if you want to put them in Bonsai trays as such young plants, you could and Kanuma would probably work great... But your trees could benefit from being grown out some more IMO.
Ohh, and Turface is just fine as a COMPONENT of a mix Andrew... Just saying. I know too many people (myself included) who have grown super healthy trees for YEARS in the stuff without problems. Turface, pumice, pine bark is a super mix for Maples- had one in it for three years or so now, and it is still one of my fastest growing, happiest Maples in a Bonsai pot. I am not going to recommend it OVER Akadama, but it is cheap and works just fine... If people don't want to pay for or have trouble getting other components, turface is totally fine.
Don't know what causes the flowers to change colors and shapes. Just want to offer one possibility, again from the same Japanese satsuki book. Please see the attached photo. Top left is a Kogetsu, the right one is a Reiko, the cause of changing flower shape (temporary for the year only) is soil became too compacted, signals repotting needed. Note there are several Reiko cultivars in English, the actual Japanese Kanji writings are different, just the same pronunciation.
Your last photo of the flower petals changing into lanceolate shape is interesting, who knows you might have grown a new cultivar :- :-?? Is that a Korin? Korin's parentage is Kozan x Osakazuki, there is a Kozan sport called Kozan-no-hikari which has lanceolate flower petals but wrong color compared to the last photo you shown.
Satsuki is too complicated. Great to read all the discussions, my humble opinion is what works for you count, may not be optimum but it is your tree and your growth schedule.
.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Yep!
And that's because many people have used and are still using turface-based mixes and growing healthy trees. Andrew, did you know that some of the trees that have won awards at the National Exhibitions have been grown in turface-based mixes?
Andrew Robson
Shohin
What do I consider bad information? This. This is very bad information.
Why think for yourself when the information of what works has already been proven? I'll tell you a quick story. Boon recently told me that while he was visiting Thailand, the local bonsai enthusiasts there were using terrible soil, and were extremely hesitant to change. Every time someone collected a native Gardenia and put it in the soil, the tree would die. Boon had a brave student try and use his soil mix, and the tree lived, and not only lived, it's growing better than ever.
I'm not going to debate with you on something that is proven to work better. It's like climate change, there will always be deniers. If you choose to deny what experts in the satsuki field have proven to work, then go ahead. I'm going to listen to the experts. They've done all the thinking for me in this aspect!
Andrew Robson
Shohin
I did, and I also know that they would have been even healthier in a mix like boon's or aoki.
I said earlier, maples grow okay in turface, but there are much better options. Any respectable bonsai professional in America will tell you this. They know from experience traveling and seeing trees growing in bad soil. Boon said that the biggest problem he sees in bonsai all over the world is trees growing in bad soil. Yet, we still debate this to death on forums such as this. These forums are great for many reasons, but they spread bad information like viruses
