Sargent's Juniper = Shimpaku Juniper?

[Smoke]

Now you're talking pines on a juniper thread...BUT...

Al is 100% right. It is just a Japanese Black Pine, Pinus thunbergii...from the Mikawa region in Japan; not a sport (sports are clones of mutated portions of a tree...like Seiju elm is a sport of Hokkaido elm) or variety...it's a regional identification.

Mikawa is on the island of Shikoku, below Hiroshima. It just happens that the JBP there have short, stiff dark needles, and the bark is just a little different. It's more plate-like and has a purple hue to it. You can read more about it at George Muranaka's blog; he gets his seed from the area:

http://muranakabonsainursery.blogsp...d-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=2

The pine in the middle is a Mikawa (left is a FAT Kotobuki, right is a nishiki). Although the sun is casting bad shadows in the image, you can see the texture of the bark and color of the foliage.

The seiju elm was developed by Carl and Shin Young in Northern California. The "catlin" elm was developed by John Catlin in Southern California.

Many cultivars used in bonsai are not necessarily known in the nursery trade as they are bonsai specific. For instance you would be looked on with crazy eyes walking into a Nursery in anytown USA and asking for a Mikawa pine, a kishu juniper, a catlin elm or a seiju elm. They just don't exist in the nursery trade.

Most people also don't know that Procumbens nana, mostly sold in box stores has a big brother. Juniperis Chinensis "procumbens". Its needles are larger, longer and more prickly than the nana. The plant does not really grow any larger or faster just has the less desirable foliage. In Japan it is known as "Sonare" I have a pretty good one from a grower in LA by the name of Frank Yee. He likes these damn things. I always buy them then turn around and give them away as raffle prizes.

 

[jk_lewis]

There are those in the taxonomy field who suspect that ALL Juniperus procumbens nana are merely a variety/subspecies/cultivar of J. chinensis.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

And some in the bonsai field that wish they'd never been introduced as bonsai candidates...

 

[Smoke]

There are those in the taxonomy field who suspect that ALL Juniperus procumbens nana are merely a variety/subspecies/cultivar of J. chinensis.

They are...

Juniperus Chinensis "procumbens"

Juniperus Chinensis "procumbens nana" (probably a dwarf sport)

 

[jk_lewis]

And some in the bonsai field that wish they'd never been introduced as bonsai candidates...

And then there are people who seem quite happy with them as bonsai. Here's one at the North Carolina Arboretum in Asheville:

 

[milehigh_7]

And then there are people who seem quite happy with them as bonsai. ...

Like Home Depot and Wal-Mart... Just kidding!

 

[Vance Wood]

And some in the bonsai field that wish they'd never been introduced as bonsai candidates...

I don't know about that particular, but a fact remains that you do not see too many (over estimate?) Procumbens Juniper as world class bonsai. One is left to ask why? It most certainly cannot be due to accessibility and availability.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I don't know about that particular, but a fact remains that you do not see too many (over estimate?) Procumbens Juniper as world class bonsai. One is left to ask why? It most certainly cannot be due to accessibility and availability.

For me it's because they BITE and I'll avoid all sharp trees when possible!

 

[Vance Wood]

For me it's because they BITE and I'll avoid all sharp trees when possible!

There's something to be said about that assuming you are referring to the needle sharpness of the foliage. It does not however, account for the fact that there are many examples of Needle Juniper (Juniperus Rigida) in the record to negate that as a viable argument for its use by the anal retentive bonsai masters of Asia and beyond, and the significant absence of Procumbens by the same masters. The needle Juniper can actually draw blood if not handled properly. I personally find a few other things that make procumbens a pain to deal with among which is its inability to tolerate being root bound and its tendency to split at the joints if not handled carefully during wiring.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

They are...

Juniperus Chinensis "procumbens"

Juniperus Chinensis "procumbens nana" (probably a dwarf sport)

Wow I didn't know procumbens was chinensis. I always thought it was Juniperus procumbens 'nana'. At least, that's what I always saw in nurseries.

 

[milehigh_7]

Perhaps going to the old dictionary might help:

ADJECTIVE:
Lying face down; prone.
Botany Trailing along the ground but not rooting: a procumbent vine.
ETYMOLOGY:
Latin prcumbns, prcumbent- present participle of prcumbere, to bend down : pr-, forward ; see pro-1 + -cumbere, to lie down

 

[Smoke]

Perhaps going to the old dictionary might help:

ADJECTIVE:
Lying face down; prone.
Botany Trailing along the ground but not rooting: a procumbent vine.
ETYMOLOGY:
Latin prcumbns, prcumbent- present participle of prcumbere, to bend down : pr-, forward ; see pro-1 + -cumbere, to lie down

Funny...I wonder what one may find when checking the dictionary for a "prostrate juniper".

 

[misfit11]

Funny...I wonder what one may find when checking the dictionary for a "prostrate juniper".

Prostrate Juniper or Prostate Juniper?

Prostrate juniper (n.) Juniper with low-lying habit.

Prostate juniper (n.) A thorny pain-in-the-ass.