jriddell88
Omono
This piece absolutely could be considered world class one day
Potential World Class Tree? #2
- Thread starter A Random User
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Okay, I had to look it up. I though it was something else. Pretty cool stuff
A Random User
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You are to funny!
Did you really just go and create a thread just to put a couple of pictures up to show what World Class trees are in your opinion?
And now tell me that if I can't tell from some photos, than I just will never get it???
Really???
How about trying to use your own voice... not others. And if you don't know or understand something, I would say it is probably best you don't start off throwing stones.
One more to add to the ignore list.
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M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
We had a small one. Move maybe a 14 foot blue spruce. They have ones that do full sized trees.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
If Im on your ignore list, then that is an accomplishment I am proud of!
I just took you off mine because I saw these threads when looking at recent posts when logged out.
You want opinions on a tree, post the damn tree dont couch it as a hubris filled fishing expedition.
I am all for discussion and opinions, but stroking your ego Im not gona do.
Besides working 40+ hours a week and being sick as dog the last 3 weeks besides, Ive been very busy getting trees and boats ready for winter.
Winter is coming up here I have things I have to get done now, not a month from now.
I dont have time to post a dissertion on why I think a tree is world class or not.
Your trees are nice, Ill always give you that, but youre getting ahead of yourself if you think they are in the same league as the ones I posted.
Sorry I know you dont like it but thats how I see it and Im not going to sugar coat anything for you.
Giga
Masterpiece
World class or not, I'll take it off ur hands if I was keeping tropicals still
i voted no,
for the reason that i just dont see this becoming a really good bonsai now.
actually i do think it has some good potential but not if you stick with this design.
wonderering if there isnt anything else you can do, perhaps reconsider options,
different angle perhaps, is really all the deadwood necesarry? how about stepping away from the cascade too.
I think it has better options then where it is going, it aint bad though still think there is more in it then you are getting out of it.
good luck
for the reason that i just dont see this becoming a really good bonsai now.
actually i do think it has some good potential but not if you stick with this design.
wonderering if there isnt anything else you can do, perhaps reconsider options,
different angle perhaps, is really all the deadwood necesarry? how about stepping away from the cascade too.
I think it has better options then where it is going, it aint bad though still think there is more in it then you are getting out of it.
good luck
A Random User
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Thanks for the reply!
I don't have a problem with you or anyone voting no... or you not liking the tree, or not thinking it has the potential to be a World Class tree...
This was not the point of the thread. Even though I have said this how many times? The point was to see why folks thought it might have, or did not have the potential to be a World Class tree... I was looking for people to explain their thought process and the logic behind these thoughts. A lot of the reasoning with this tree as well as the other, were things that could easily be changed, some a bit more difficult, but capable of being resolved none the less...
My hope was to put forth the understanding that this is not Rocket Scientist work... or an Art that only a few are capable of doing. I don't feel it is... just takes time and a lot of hard work. World Class trees did not just become World Class on their own... folks did the work. I have said this so many times here at the Nut, that I am starting to sound like a broken record... yet I am still amazed at how much flack I get from people, for only saying they can create nice trees too.
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A Random User
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I dunno what a world class tree is and the ones that are suppose to be world class usually put me to sleep. Is that bad?
I like the crazy movement but it may benefit from more negative space in the trunk but it's all so pretty so I'm conflicted. I loath the way it's potted but that just for training right?
I like the crazy movement but it may benefit from more negative space in the trunk but it's all so pretty so I'm conflicted. I loath the way it's potted but that just for training right?
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Stacy,
be careful, we have had folk reduce the leaves of the buttonwood to between 1/4" and 1/2 " and then have branches die, or the whole tree. Also observed was no change in the amount of leaves. When we defoliate any tree we look for a % increase in the leaves or branchlets.
No good in reducing leaves if they simply come back, but just .smaller or no increase in branchlets.
Much thanks for the offer though.
Good Day
Anthony
be careful, we have had folk reduce the leaves of the buttonwood to between 1/4" and 1/2 " and then have branches die, or the whole tree. Also observed was no change in the amount of leaves. When we defoliate any tree we look for a % increase in the leaves or branchlets.
No good in reducing leaves if they simply come back, but just .smaller or no increase in branchlets.
Much thanks for the offer though.
Good Day
Anthony
Dorian Fourie
Chumono
I think it definitely has potential to be a world class tree. I really like what you have done with it.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
I must admit...I didn't read it that way. I may have not been the only one to feel the same. But I can honestly only speak for myself. But nice trees don't equal world class. So yeah...a bit confusing for me to grasp. It contradicts. You may have meant one thing...but it was not coming across as such.
I have no issues with where you were even going with your point...but...one must understand we all roll to the beat of our own drum. We are not all going to agree with each other's thought process. I agree with Mr. Pall...that comes a time one might want to strive for better bones...but, also see such as yourself you find joy in working crappy material... making them nicer. If it brings you joy...then do it. Bottom line it's your inner personal joy... not anothers possible thought process. I personally want good bones at a budget I can afford. If I could afford better and was confident I could horticulturally capable of keeping it alive I would do so. But I like looking at good bones...character which hopefully will turn into more under my care. Not saying others might not be of your thinking...but not all. It doesn't make anyone wrong if it brings them joy...
jriddell88
Omono
Everyone needs to understand that trees at this point in the game are only going to get better in the right hands. That's why I love working good nursery stock, it's only going to get better throughout the years and in 5-10 years who knows .
A Random User
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Yes, Anthony, I understand... for those not familiar with Buttonwoods, the amount of leaves or even size of leaves is not necessarily an indication that the tree is in good health. They will continue to put out leaves even when in trouble. What determines the health is the sending out of shoots.
The reduction of leaf size, has little to do with the health, (unless of course the tree is being deprived of water) it would not cause a branch to die. I do not defoliate Buttonwoods to try an increase ramification or leaf size. This is more than likely why one would be having issues with branches dying... putting to much stress on the material. There is no need to defoliate Buttonwoods other than when re-potting due to the fact that they often loose a substantial amount of fine roots in the process, so to balance this out, it helps to defoliate. If one is not doing serious root work and just transferring from one pot to the other, no need.
Buttonwoods, can easily be ramified causing leaf reduction through proper pruning and opening up of the tree. What i will do is cut back to the first set of leaves on a branch... let new shoots originate from this point and grow about 4 inches to give strength. Then cut these two completely off, leaving little stumps. This will force new buds to grow further back down the branch, and at the same time new ones will originate again from the same point of those that you cut. This process can be repeated and needs to consistently.
If one begins down the path of building ramification and foliage mass, one has to be consistent... funny part is that the health of the tree actually prefers this. One just has to allow for sufficient growth in between cuttings, and yet at the same time not allow the tree to get to leggy, this will actually decrease the tree's health.
First 3 pictures leaf size of branches being worked. Last picture is of one being grown out on the same tree.
***Want to add that these pictures our not from the tree in question,I posted here. The tree in question, i have not even begun to really work for ramification and leaf size reduction. I am still growing out branching and constructing the tree.
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Leo in N E Illinois
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In theory, every tree seed could potentially become a world class tree. What happens after it sprouts makes all the difference in the world. Very quickly most trees develop to a point where they can never become world class, even if later put in the hands of a master artist. I have seen a number of good yamadori (mostly Ponderosa pines in my area) with lots of potential, I have seen them taken from good trees to mediocre trees by their owners who just did not have the vision to use the best parts of their trees. From great raw stock to boring in a matter of a few cuts. I am myself guilty of this in a couple cases. So it is all up to the artist. So in a way, you are taking a poll on whether or not this forum thinks you have the artistic skill to advance this tree to world class. Really not a fair thing to do to the members, or yourself.
Yes, I think this tree could become world class, though until I saw the defoliated photos, I would have said no. Very interesting dead wood. The trick is to style it in a way that shows the dead wood to the best effect. Not necessarily all front forward in the face. It is necessary to have some mystery to the presentation, something that makes one want to see all around the tree. As the tree is currently planted, the lowest lines of the trunks draw too horizontal an image. It says "squashed shrub" to me, doesn't feel like a tree. The planting angle needs to be changed, to get the base horizontal line moving upward at a stronger angle than it is currently. The dead wood in this tree is where its potential lies. I would be hesitant to remove any of the dead wood. Comments you made about training the foliage to make more of the deadwood visible is spot on. You are on the right track there. Yes, this buttonwood does have lots of potential, even world class. And it is looking healthy too.
I very much want to see this tree evolve in your care. I think you may be up for the challenge. If possible, if I were you I would also get one or two of the "buttonwood masters" who have styled buttonwoods to top notch exhibit worthy trees, like Mary Madison, Rob K. or any of the others in Florida, to see this tree and give you their thoughts. It might give you an idea or two that you might want to use. I'm not saying have them style it, I am just suggesting seeking their advice as to possible directions to take the tree. I myself, from the photos can not see the direction to take this tree in. But to me it does need a change in angle of planting.
Yes, I think this tree could become world class, though until I saw the defoliated photos, I would have said no. Very interesting dead wood. The trick is to style it in a way that shows the dead wood to the best effect. Not necessarily all front forward in the face. It is necessary to have some mystery to the presentation, something that makes one want to see all around the tree. As the tree is currently planted, the lowest lines of the trunks draw too horizontal an image. It says "squashed shrub" to me, doesn't feel like a tree. The planting angle needs to be changed, to get the base horizontal line moving upward at a stronger angle than it is currently. The dead wood in this tree is where its potential lies. I would be hesitant to remove any of the dead wood. Comments you made about training the foliage to make more of the deadwood visible is spot on. You are on the right track there. Yes, this buttonwood does have lots of potential, even world class. And it is looking healthy too.
I very much want to see this tree evolve in your care. I think you may be up for the challenge. If possible, if I were you I would also get one or two of the "buttonwood masters" who have styled buttonwoods to top notch exhibit worthy trees, like Mary Madison, Rob K. or any of the others in Florida, to see this tree and give you their thoughts. It might give you an idea or two that you might want to use. I'm not saying have them style it, I am just suggesting seeking their advice as to possible directions to take the tree. I myself, from the photos can not see the direction to take this tree in. But to me it does need a change in angle of planting.
A Random User
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Both Mary and Rob Kempinski have seen the tree and love the direction it is headed. The tree was originally collected by Mary. However I obtained it from some one wishing to downsize their bigger trees due to not being able to handle them very easily.
As far as why I was taking the poll, it was as I have stated to try and get folks to look at what possibilities can be done, rather than just something cannot be done. For a lot of folks in Bonsai there seems to be this unattainable golden pipe dream, that no one can ever achieve. It reminds me of the line in the movie Braveheart, where Mel Gibson explains to the crowd, who does not possibly think he could be William Wallace, and he says why? Because he is not 10 feet tall and does not have fire shooting out of his arse?
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Surrounded by a whole Army of my Countrymen. ....
That's what I think about when I see Billybones' thread! Lol
Sorce
William Wallace killed 50 men....fifty! If it was one!
Aye, I should have remembered the rocks!
I'm here to claim the right as her Husband.
(Club to face!)
Freeeeeedoooommmmm!
That's what I think about when I see Billybones' thread! Lol
Sorce
William Wallace killed 50 men....fifty! If it was one!
Aye, I should have remembered the rocks!
I'm here to claim the right as her Husband.
(Club to face!)
Freeeeeedoooommmmm!
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
I have admired many a tree of several members here. They have done some amazing things...dream material I would love having sit on my bench...they happen to be humble...which isn't a bad fault to have. Why do they need to say anything when their trees say it all.
I disagree that many feel its an unattainable pipe dream...they be humble and their trees stand with no needed words to say so. Most who feel otherwise are wet behind the ears but will get there one day. But like myself am honest. But...I doubt I can afford the bones of a tree with "World Class Potential"...Because it would have to have the clouds part and angels sing when my eyes fell on it. But then,I'm easy to please...I'm not after the notoriety of such a tree. But just want to have trees that make me happy. I'm excited to improve on my journey...but I wish to have my feet on the ground.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
I wish to be able to retire someday so I'd rather keep my money in the bank working toward that bigger goal. Owning world class material or even potential material isn't in the cards unless I win a multi million dollar jackpot. Even then, I don't know if I'd want the stress of keeping it alive.
