M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Sawgrass is brutal but I think most of his trees make it. He seems to know how far to take one without killing it.
Potential for World Class?
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michaelj
Chumono
I think it's a fascinating piece of material. I'd love to see the before pictures if they ever existed. I've seen this tree a few times before, including once or twice in full leaf and I was amazed because I have one of these. I'm not certain how you obtained it, but I have a very strong suspicion. I voted "no" simply because I think the bonsai elite would dismiss this species automatically, but I like it a lot.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I was just bringing up a point that people need to consider. I did not mean to impugn what he has done, after all, they used to go after Kimura in the beginning. However; the original premiss of this post was whether or not this was world class or define what is world class. The situation in bonsai as it exists today, much of what used to be graven in stone and adhered to like a barnacle on the hull of an old fishing boat are no longer considered as sacred. Our sensibilities have started to progress into the realm of making our own designs as opposed to mimicking those from Japan. Our good trees are still carefully refined and not just growing willy nilly with no apparent direction But; they may not be defined specifically by any one of the Japanese models. There was a day when a tree like this would be the subject of ridicule.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
I also detect some scaring...can one show a tree with wire scars? I'm sure they must...it happens to the best of us.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
I think...maybe putting this into a show and seeing how it goes...might be something you may want to consider. Verses speculating on what we think. Have you showed many of your trees? Assuming you have...
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
It depends. Scars can be a real problem for a lot of the so called judges, others----not so much. If when looking at the tree if the first thing you notice is the wire scars then the scars will be an issue. If when looking at the tree the wire scars have to be pointed out to you then the beauty of the tree seems to out shine its faults. I don't think a further statement about this needs to go further.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
@sawgrass , can you please post the pic on this page.
I have to add, I love the branching.
Yet there is something in the 2 trunks that says dead straight, beyond what you see.
The deadwood indicates a past of what would have been 400 ft monsters, to what is now supposed to be believed as small?
That is what doesn't make sense to me.
I saw the latest Hagedorn video on YouTube. There is a natural clump of Larch. That would be, STRICKTLY THE OPPOSITE FEELING. (no AC)
However, I feel like you may have photoshopped the pot, and this is a trick post where, when you reveal it, it will be amazing!
I truly believe a different pot could change the whole image.
In its natural setting, maybe the story changes.
Sorce
I have to add, I love the branching.
Yet there is something in the 2 trunks that says dead straight, beyond what you see.
The deadwood indicates a past of what would have been 400 ft monsters, to what is now supposed to be believed as small?
That is what doesn't make sense to me.
I saw the latest Hagedorn video on YouTube. There is a natural clump of Larch. That would be, STRICKTLY THE OPPOSITE FEELING. (no AC)
However, I feel like you may have photoshopped the pot, and this is a trick post where, when you reveal it, it will be amazing!
I truly believe a different pot could change the whole image.
In its natural setting, maybe the story changes.
Sorce
Eric Group
Masterpiece
Cool tree! Very "artistic"! 
Not world class in my book.... I don't want to pick the tree apart, because it is nice... Well placed branches, a good overall shape, the deadwood is pretty well done... But it would not hold a candle to a Kokufu tree, or even the ones I saw pics of from the Artisans cup (some of which were not "world class" in my book either)... Or even some of the trees at the Carolina expo earlier this month. It would be a fine addition to a regional show one day I am sure... Maybe even a ribbon winner! But World Class? I don't see that in it, no.
Not world class in my book.... I don't want to pick the tree apart, because it is nice... Well placed branches, a good overall shape, the deadwood is pretty well done... But it would not hold a candle to a Kokufu tree, or even the ones I saw pics of from the Artisans cup (some of which were not "world class" in my book either)... Or even some of the trees at the Carolina expo earlier this month. It would be a fine addition to a regional show one day I am sure... Maybe even a ribbon winner! But World Class? I don't see that in it, no.
jriddell88
Omono
Maybe world class if your used to working big box parsonii ;-)
Geo
Chumono
"Maybe world class if your used to working big box parsonii ;-) "
A bit jealous ?
A bit jealous ?
JJshives
Sapling
To me (inexperienced and untrained), this is not a natural representation of any tree I've ever seen before, but is an example of experienced and well thought out bonsai technique. When I've seen pictures of "world class" trees, there is something natural about them that makes me forget about their size completely and, at least from this picture, I can't say the same about this one. With that in mind, I don't know what kind of tree this is or if there are any examples of one like this in nature. I feel to a certain extent that has to be taken into consideration when talking world class trees.
A Random User
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A Random User
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Gotta disagree sorry... this may be partially true in Japan, but most everywhere else China, Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam, Korea, Indonesia and this list goes on have tons of World Class Trees that are not Conifers at all. You gotta get out more Vance! We have all kinds of folks down here who ask me why I even bother with conifers in the first place. They are doing world class trees.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Thanks Vance...scaring always confused me at how to see a tree. Depending on the tree...it can grow and thicken and be less of an issue. Had scaring on my own ryusen maple I'm goofing around with. But it's gotten to the point it's less noticeable with just one season.
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
It is a great start compared to many. Perhaps after 10 - 15 years of development and ramification work it will be a great tree... I suspect the root structure is also in need of work. Nice as is - needs time and TLC. Would I dedicate time to it - most likely but only because it "could" be very nice. You stated "World Class" which is vague but at first glance - nope.
Grimmy
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
But; you are not talking "World Class" here. You are taking about regions. With the exception of Korea where collected Pines are really only marginally available, the rest of your list is tropical. So I guess we need to define what World Class means. And I suppose in this world that is a real issue. Perhaps the concept of World Class is a misnomer?
jriddell88
Omono
No I'm kidding I think the tree has great potential with ramification and nebari work will be a nice piece , most would love to work with material like this. Gotta love the "twin trunks" (maybe?). My phones autocorrect really needs to get with the bonsai lingo . Jeez! Maybe darken the deadwood a bit to give it a more natural feel but I enjoyed seeing it thanks !
erb.75
Chumono
Ya, I think you are correct in your last statement. I think by World Class, most people mean "what the Japanese, Americans, and some Europeans think is the best style/type/image of a bonsai in 2015".
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
There is some excelent work going on in Indonesia and the other places mentioned by Sawgrass, I just wonder what would happen if we actually had a world show where the best bonsai from around the world, litterally, were brought together for a "Show Down"? That would be a world class show with world class implications. Have you noticed though. Perhaps the best of these Asian species seem to be the Phemphas acidua. The way the tree grows it looks a lot like a Juniper.
erb.75
Chumono
Vance,
That would be a show that makes a much bigger splash than the artisans cup, in my opinion. I would be tempted to shell out big bucks to go see it. Truthfully, I feel the strongest urge to go see some of the Penjing shows/museums. Also truthfully, I'm more than happy to go to any show/bonsai museum. Even little local ones. I guess I just like bonsai
So you're organizing the worldwide competition Vance? Thanks for volunteering!
