So are you before or after the video "nicki minai waxes her ass"?
Pinching Vance Wood: the challenge
- Thread starter Brian Van Fleet
- Start date
michaelj
Chumono
Before.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
First, thank you Vance for taking the time to demonstrate your process. I respect the effort that you put into supporting the bonsai community; including videos like this one.
Second; as I have been stating for several years on this topic, I suspected we were haggling over terminology and not technique. If your video is a true representation of what you do, we are not that far apart on technique; regardless of the terminology used.
I am glad to see that for the most part, you are not advocating ripping off clumps of growing tips. I will also say that, as Adair already stated, constant trimming creates unwanted density at the top, and weakens the interior and lower branches. It is important to let junipers grow out, then trim them back; which is what Adair and I have been advocating here for some time.
A couple key differences I observed are these; not right or wrong:
1. I tend to let mine grow out more, and trim them back harder.
2. I spend more time on each shoot to determine what stays and what is removed.
Thank you for your response. This has been quite the thread.
Second; as I have been stating for several years on this topic, I suspected we were haggling over terminology and not technique. If your video is a true representation of what you do, we are not that far apart on technique; regardless of the terminology used.
I am glad to see that for the most part, you are not advocating ripping off clumps of growing tips. I will also say that, as Adair already stated, constant trimming creates unwanted density at the top, and weakens the interior and lower branches. It is important to let junipers grow out, then trim them back; which is what Adair and I have been advocating here for some time.
A couple key differences I observed are these; not right or wrong:
1. I tend to let mine grow out more, and trim them back harder.
2. I spend more time on each shoot to determine what stays and what is removed.
Thank you for your response. This has been quite the thread.
PierreR
Shohin
I would like to thank Vance for putting up with what seemed like a lot of crap, and posting the video of his technique. I would also like to thank Adair and Mike for their direction and guidance throughout this thread, and on others, and genuine desire to help others do things at a top notch level.
Its good to see that the main percieved differences were in terminology, and not drastic differences in practice. This is a pretty decent forum from what I have been able to see since joining up, and its nice to see a level of respect among some of the old/long timers, even though at times it seemed to be getting a little heated.
Thanks guys!
Its good to see that the main percieved differences were in terminology, and not drastic differences in practice. This is a pretty decent forum from what I have been able to see since joining up, and its nice to see a level of respect among some of the old/long timers, even though at times it seemed to be getting a little heated.
Thanks guys!
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I didn't say that you had. Actually you have been very balanced, and you have provided pictures. There are a couple of others that have done neither.
JoeR
Masterpiece
'They' say not to pinch junipers because of brown tips.
'They' say not to cut needles because of brown tips.
But is it not true that if given the proper aftercare, the cut needles will not brown? Could this not be applied to pinched junipers as well?
I believe 'The Bonsai Art of Japan' on youtube shows needle cutting which is followed by heavy watering.
'They' say not to cut needles because of brown tips.
But is it not true that if given the proper aftercare, the cut needles will not brown? Could this not be applied to pinched junipers as well?
I believe 'The Bonsai Art of Japan' on youtube shows needle cutting which is followed by heavy watering.
If Bjorn were to pinch just before a show, it would be the morning of the show or maybe the day before. They will brown a little.
But really, guys, there's no compelling reason to pinch, and you get better results if you don't.
Vance says on this or another thread that his favorite book on bonsai was Yugi Yoshimura's book published in 1957. I, too, got my start from that book. I read it, re-read it, many, many times. But, come on, the techniques in there are over 50 years old! The state of the art has progressed since then.
New techniques are being developed all the time. I hope I never stop learning new techniques. (Heck, I'm still trying to Master the existing ones!)
Anyway, I hope everyone has learned something from all this!
But really, guys, there's no compelling reason to pinch, and you get better results if you don't.
Vance says on this or another thread that his favorite book on bonsai was Yugi Yoshimura's book published in 1957. I, too, got my start from that book. I read it, re-read it, many, many times. But, come on, the techniques in there are over 50 years old! The state of the art has progressed since then.
New techniques are being developed all the time. I hope I never stop learning new techniques. (Heck, I'm still trying to Master the existing ones!)
Anyway, I hope everyone has learned something from all this!
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I read the part in the other thread where it says BVF is packing.
Make it $50!
Sorce
Txhorticulture
Chumono
That was classy and diplomatic.
Well, it,was interesting at times,
Easiest to understand were the pictures where as was shown what to cut.
Im sure it makes for a lot of work to make the video however its hard to see what you are doing especilly the pinching. If you want to explain something, better to show up close what you are doing. I guess doing this alone is near impossible and someone else should video so it can be shown in detail.
Well in the end i guess the main point was "do not maintain by pinching but by cutting". This was shown by all sides. I guess some very minor tweaking by pinching doesnt really have any influance, i have seen pros do this actually. 95% or more is done by cutting back though. Weather it turns brown or not...
Im sure Vance also learned something
Easiest to understand were the pictures where as was shown what to cut.
Im sure it makes for a lot of work to make the video however its hard to see what you are doing especilly the pinching. If you want to explain something, better to show up close what you are doing. I guess doing this alone is near impossible and someone else should video so it can be shown in detail.
Well in the end i guess the main point was "do not maintain by pinching but by cutting". This was shown by all sides. I guess some very minor tweaking by pinching doesnt really have any influance, i have seen pros do this actually. 95% or more is done by cutting back though. Weather it turns brown or not...
Im sure Vance also learned something
Txhorticulture
Chumono
I'm not made of money ... you gotta be quick
Robert E Holt
Shohin
I want to thank Brian, Adair and Vance (and others who actually contributed to the discussion) for their input to this subject. As a newbie I have to say this was a very interesting and educational thread. At times it has seemed a bit childish and was difficult to make sense of some of the information. At one point I even thought I might just stay away from junipers all together. I still have some unanswered questions, but between the pictures and video I think i hav a much better understanding of trimming and caring for Junipers. A few more videos with close-up veiws of what is being done along with an explanation of why would be great. I know capturing that sort of detail in a video is difficult, but one can always hope.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
There seems to be a mantra wafting through this thread that I would like to debunk. You wrote: Vance says on this or another thread that his favorite book on bonsai was Yugi Yoshimura's book published in 1957. I, too, got my start from that book. I read it, re-read it, many, many times. But, come on, the techniques in there are over 50 years old! The state of the art has progressed since then. I don't have an aversion to a new technique but; it has to be better than the old one. I think that is reasonable. Now; weather what I do is old or naturally evolved over time by my own experiences; it is what I do and no one has shown me a good enough reason to change what I do. I don't mean to sound stubborn or intractable but I will not toss out what works just to make every body happy. I know Brian and Adair have shown trees that are good but I have seen others devolve after adopting some of this new technique.
michaelj
Chumono
It stands for Thirty Mile Zone - a reference to the area radiating from the southeast corner of Beverly and La Cienega in Los Angeles California, that is used by union film projects to determine per diem rates and driving distances for crew members. TMZ is a tabloid TV show, website and YouTube channel. Basically, a bunch of paparazzi and other stalkers obsessing over certain types of people.
amcoffeegirl
Masterpiece
Imagine a tree with a sparse crown- where you want to thicken the foliage.
I know where you're going with this. I understand and respect both views- sincerely
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I had to think for a minute as to which Shimp I actually posted. On this tree the crown is too thick. The tree has not been worked this year, it is about to. I may video the labor but I will not be buffaloed into doing so. This is a process that should be put up so we shall see.
Sparce crown? Let it grow. Grow runners. Then cut back pretty hard. The accumulated strength from the runners will manifest itself in strong back budding and side branches.
No pinching.
drew33998
Masterpiece
Well with all the back and forth on this thread I was reminded of something "Don't argue with a fool, because they bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience."
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Was that really necessary or constructive?
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