Late night yamadori ninja mission.

[Starfox]

Crown land means very little and if anything makes things more complicated, you can't just do what you want on it. And in some states you can't even do what you want on private property.
Honestly if there is any confusion just check your local council website to find what you can and can't do.

All Australian native species both flora and fauna are protected so that is a starting point. In South Australia and the ACT you cannot remove any native plant from the ground even on private property unless you planted it yourself(even then I'd be careful). You can get permits if there is a reason you need to clear the land.
The other states have other laws which can be more forgiving but I believe permits are needed for native species. Invasives too you can't dig and relocate as they must be destroyed.

The laws in my opinion whilst serve a purpose are quite draconian but it does help to at least know them so you can say the right thing when quizzed on it.
Some of the best yamadori I have seen are Australian natives, it's a shame access to them is complicated.

Here is a brief run down https://www.finder.com.au/cutting-down-trees-on-your-property

 

[sorce]

Thanks for this useful information Craig. And Starfox.

After all....

It's not like Bean said he was going to do it again no matter what we say!

I don't know if it was a mistake...
So I don't know how anyone else can be so sure.

If it was...

We all make em.

The responsible thing to do is properly educate our friend for the future.

We are not even sure if this was a crime.
Otherwise these Aussie's Probly would have stated it so.

Lolol ! More U.S. bullshit!
Our Constitution says "innocent until proven guilty".

Jesus fucking Christ!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Which is to say.....

We are Unlawfully trying to apply our laws to you!

Fucking genious!

Sorce

 

[Craigm]

all shari aside, I would at this stage prefer that this Casuarina enjoys a Good chance of survival or it's all been a waste.
When ever I collect Casuarina ,regardless of time of year or any other factor I Always remove ALL foliage from the tree. Cut them off so as not to damage all the stems of smaller branches.Semi shade and nice amounts of water. This is by Far the method I have had the Most success with over the time I have been collecting Casuarina. Good luck.

 

[Starfox]

Well I try not to criticize, we all have judgements to make so I would guess it is easier to make an informed judgement.

Heck, here in Spain you are not even allowed to remove a Stone Pine unless it is causing damage. I have like 4 or 5 young ones that have popped up in our yard but law or no law these will not be staying in the ground. That is my call and I'm ok with that.

I got depressed as hell to learn the laws in South Australia where I am from and possibly hope to return. Even had my own unique island ecosystem to play with picked out only to learn I can't even dig them on my own property. It's a bunch of bollocks but at the same time understandable. But if it ever comes to it I will make my own choices regardless.

 

[sorce]

If that wasn't enough!

Where were the moral police for this thread?
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/grip-rip-special.28736/

Are we sooooooo fed our Bullshit that we Hear "Taco Bell" and all of a sudden EVERYTHING becomes ok because it's Taco Bell? And via advertising, they already have us convinced Taco bell is sooooooo good.....that nothing is wrong?

Well....
Consider this....

That tree pulled from Taco Bell, could very well be the tree that the rats have been using as a scent post to change direction.

With that tree gone, the rats may now chose a different path.

That path could lead by a new place that can introduce disease (more disease!) Into the food.

Let's call it the Black Plague, and all of a sudden the ENTIRETY of HUMANITY is annihilated because Drew pulled that tree.

Oh it's much more important we jump down your throat for removing that wallaby scratching post!

Sorce

 

[A. Gorilla]

Which is to say.....

We are Unlawfully trying to apply our laws to you!

Fucking genious!

Sorce

So what I'm hearing is, he could have made a good faith effort to ask someone. And because nobody cares in Australia (apparently) that someone would have probably said "Sure, what do I care?" Or maybe there was truly nobody to ask.

Also, this is a public and international forum. Do we not get a daily dose of "Hey, new to bonsai...how do I?"

And then we got our guy being cute about gray market collection. And then being cute and cryptic when asked about the legal status. "Too busy watching a movie, hur hur." Cool in Oz? Ok. Might get your hand chopped off somewhere else. "B-b-but...bonsai? I thought we could..."

No. You can't necessarily. Calibrate your ethical compass somewhat closer to the lowest common denominator, if for no other reason, bonsai PR for the rest of us.

Or don't publicly brag about it on an international forum. <---Hey there's an idea.

 

[rockm]

If that wasn't enough!

Where were the moral police for this thread?
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/grip-rip-special.28736/

Are we sooooooo fed our Bullshit that we Hear "Taco Bell" and all of a sudden EVERYTHING becomes ok because it's Taco Bell? And via advertising, they already have us convinced Taco bell is sooooooo good.....that nothing is wrong?

Well....
Consider this....

That tree pulled from Taco Bell, could very well be the tree that the rats have been using as a scent post to change direction.

With that tree gone, the rats may now chose a different path.

That path could lead by a new place that can introduce disease (more disease!) Into the food.

Let's call it the Black Plague, and all of a sudden the ENTIRETY of HUMANITY is annihilated because Drew pulled that tree.

Oh it's much more important we jump down your throat for removing that wallaby scratching post!

Sorce

Jesus...this thread continues to be a big load of crap.

So, Yeah, collection in Australia is different that in the U.S. I don't know what's going on down there as far as rules go, but apparently neither does the self righteous poster or any of the others who for some reason, back him up. He has yet to tell us what's up with what can be and can't be collected legally-- I mean other than "I wanted it, I took it--There's a lot of land that no one owns, so it's not hurting anyone and oh-yeah, I was too embarrassed to take the tree in broad daylight, so I waited until nighttime so no one would see me..." Add in the "nyah, nyah, nyahs" and that's where we are basically. No one has actually looked in to what's possible and what's not in the area he couldn't control himself in.

Know what shuts up us self-righteous "moral police" fast and shows you know what you're doing and not just a juvenile punk out to steal shit? Telling the moral police "I have a permit" or "I have permission from the landowner--here's their phone number."

The argument stops cold at those words. Done it myself when confronted by a member of the public who saw me digging a tree. "Hey, you, STOP doing that. It's wrong and I'm calling the police." The response--"I have permission from the landowner, want me to call them?" the person turned around and left. Simple as that. I was left in peace to continue what I was doing--in broad daylight and with time to look around for more without having to creep into the area at night or avoid being seen...

Look, if you want to shut me up FIND OUT WHAT THE RULES ARE-- MAKE A MINMAL ATTEMPT TO BE A RESPONSIBLE COLLECTOR and stop acting like a five year old trying to get away with something. Make a simple phone call or two to determine the ground rules...

Accept some responsibility for your actions and learn to control your impulses, just like regular adults.

Taking something just because you want it and no one is looking is a very slippery path and it taints the rest of us. You only have to look at what happened with Pemphis Acidula collecting in the Philippines. Too many people took liberties and the whole deal was shut down.

You are dealing with a natural resource in an apparently public area -- With that comes responsibility.

Here in the U.S., it is legal to hunt deer and other game on public lands. However, because people are dealing with a public resource it requires them to observe some rules so that resource isn't abused and the playing field is level for everyone. Game permits allow a limited number of deer tags, or a bear tag, etc. You don't get to take more than your share. everyone knows the rules.

Jacklighting, throwing out feed, hunting out of season, etc. are all shitty things to do to the deer and to other hunters. Ethical hunters know that and don't tolerate it, not only because it's unethical, but primarily because it can affect their ability to hunt legally.

Man up.

 

[sorce]

I care....

Another flip....

Another point....

I'm not really the one to worry about their(the mans) public relations for us.

I'm not one to bow to those "plant blind" fucks.

New scenario.

We dig Buckthorn here to save the Prarie, etc,....it's invasive!

So we tear them out and burn them.

But what of the Microscopic fungus that happened to find its last available habitat to survive in that Buckthorn we just burned.
And what if that fungus was the cure for cancer?
(Not that meat isn't the cause!)

Are they inspecting each and every one and its entire root mass to find an as of yet unidentified mouse species that speaks good Italian?

No!

So what's the point!?
This is just bullshit they feed us to keep us blind to what REAL FREEDOM IS!

TO KEEP US FIGHTING AMONGST OURSELVES ABOUT YET ONE MORE THING THAT THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT BUT WILL FINE YOU FOR!

We are all smarter amd more responsible than THEM.

So snitch not.

I gotta go take my 8th grade son to HS for his Advanced Engineering Science and Mathematics classes.

Sorce

 

[JudyB]

Now seeking permission is the safest and probably the most honorable rout

"Probably"????! No not probably. Absolutely. And the only correct way.

 

[wrcmad]

Done it myself when confronted by a member of the public who saw me digging a tree. "Hey, you, STOP doing that. It's wrong and I'm calling the police."

Oh FFS.
Glad I live in Oz.
If someone over here was to carry on like this ↑ , they'd cop a snotting pretty quick for being a dickhead.
No one over here would be so fkd as to confront a tree digger with "Hey, you, STOP doing that. It's wrong and I'm calling the police." because they'd be laughed out of town for acting like a 5yr old twat.

 

[sorce]

What I'm trying to say is....

Whatever Group we are going to run tell...

They don't care at all about the topic at hand.

We....as a Group. Do. If simply because we are not plant blind!

Beanwagon is a part of OUR group.

Ours.

Not theirs.

Fuck Them!

Sorce

 

[rockm]

I care....

Another flip....

Another point....

I'm not really the one to worry about their(the mans) public relations for us.

I'm not one to bow to those "plant blind" fucks.

New scenario.

We dig Buckthorn here to save the Prarie, etc,....it's invasive!

So we tear them out and burn them.

But what of the Microscopic fungus that happened to find its last available habitat to survive in that Buckthorn we just burned.
And what if that fungus was the cure for cancer?
(Not that meat isn't the cause!)

Are they inspecting each and every one and its entire root mass to find an as of yet unidentified mouse species that speaks good Italian?

No!

So what's the point!?
This is just bullshit they feed us to keep us blind to what REAL FREEDOM IS!

TO KEEP US FIGHTING AMONGST OURSELVES ABOUT YET ONE MORE THING THAT THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT BUT WILL FINE YOU FOR!

We are all smarter amd more responsible than THEM.

So snitch not.

I gotta go take my 8th grade son to HS for his Advanced Engineering Science and Mathematics classes.

Sorce

I don't get it.

For Christsake, what's the problem with trying to be an ethical collector instead of being a rationalizing thief?

Sure, invasives are a problem. Hell, they pay you here in Fairfax County to remove some shit, like bittersweet and wisteria, BUT you have to have a permit to do it--which entails proving you know WHAT THE FUCKING PLANTS you're going to be taking out look like...and to prove you're not going to fuck up the public land you're taking things from.

This isn't rocket science. Make an effort to find out what the rules are. Follow them...There is precedent for dumbass collectors digging protected trees in public areas with no permission and having those areas shut down because of that collection. It's simple -- gluttons or thieves screw things up for the rest of us. Making excuses for that behavior enables more of the same idiotic behavior.

 

[just.wing.it]

You guys are funny....
Is it legal to mow your own lawn?

 

[rockm]

Oh FFS.
Glad I live in Oz.
If someone over here was to carry on like this ↑ , they'd cop a snotting pretty quick for being a dickhead.
No one over here would be so fkd as to confront a tree digger with "Hey, you, STOP doing that. It's wrong and I'm calling the police." because they'd be laughed out of town for acting like a 5yr old twat.

Think so? With the increasing numbers of "earthy crunchy" environmentalists worldwide, or simply people who like to get up in your shit, you've got your thumbs in yours ears and are humming tune.
And FWIW, the site was a historic one--there are many here in Va. The site was under private control. People tend to get their panties in a bunch when you're digging in areas like that.
http://www.latimes.com/local/califo...tist-sentenced---20160620-snap-htmlstory.html
"Defiling public land" is taken in many ways--it can include digging stuff up...

 

[Starfox]

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/rpp/100-120/rpp109/09.html

 

[wrcmad]

For Christsake, what's the problem with trying to be an ethical collector instead of being a rationalizing thief?

No one here gives a fk. So it isn't considered theft.
You guys are the only ones calling it non-ethical, because you have no idea what the deal is here.
He did it at night so he didn't look like a tool digging some weird-ass tree out of butt-fk nowhere.
People look at you weird for doing seemingly strange things here ... they don't instantly suspect crime and go crying to the cops for nothing.

 

[wrcmad]

Think so?

Know so.

With the increasing numbers of "earthy crunchy" environmentalists worldwide, or simply people who like to get up in your shit, you've got your thumbs in yours ears and are humming tune.

Maybe where you come from. But people here don't really get-off on getting up in other peoples shit.
They are way more laid back than that.

 

[M. Frary]

Well.
Legal or not.
How can you make a good collection in the dark in the first place.
If the guys new to bonsai or if you've collected hundreds of trees the dark isn't the time to do it.
Not good for your safety nor the trees.
And really. Digging a tree up by flashlight will get authorities called faster than in the daylightif someone sees you. Nobody digs trees up in the dark by flashlight unless they think it's wrong.

So we tear them out and burn them.

We don't. We spray them with herbicides that target only the tree species.

(Not that meat isn't the cause!)

It isn't. Or we wouldn't be predators.

 

[wrcmad]

And really. Digging a tree up by flashlight will get authorities called faster than in the daylightif someone sees you. Nobody digs trees up in the dark by flashlight unless they think it's wrong.

You guys really don't have much to do? Calling the police and authorities of every little thing?
Over here, you get asked what your doing, then they'd probably give you a hand digging.