Late night yamadori ninja mission.

[Giga]

I have had no problem asking people for permission to dig a tree on their property. I have had the "huh, whut? Sure you can" response more than once. It's not hard to do. Even had offers from landowners to help me dig things up once I'd asked. Not asking and stealing stuff (and making excuses for "not wanting to look like a crazy person") is for, well, babies. Man up. Accept responsibilty

I've even use terms that people are familiar with and say i'm a botanist and would like to study the tree. People think that's something special and I've got people offer to help dig it out.

 

[mattspinniken]

People say yes more than they say no in my experience when asking for permission. Most people are curious and some have even started wanting to try there hand at the hobby.

 

[GSCarlson]

I could only support this if it were an actual ninja mission. Complete with double katanas, and throwing stars. And if the tree were guarded by at least a dozen highly trained samurai. Anything less is just petty theft.

 

[Quince]

I think, looking at this realistically, you are trying to promote theft. Or at the very least, justify it.

There are places that are loved by their owners, where each plant is hand picked, or at least known. There are public parks, gardens and nature areas to be shared. The unlawful removal of anything from these places should be absolutely condemned. I too would be offended by somone trespassing on land that I was living on or managing.
However, I do see a lot of land that is possessed for reasons totally independent of the life forms living on it. Powerline right of ways, train tracks, derelect and vacant commercial properties, empty lots and waste spaces. In most cases acces would be denied because it's less risky to say no and the proprietor has little to gain by granting permission. Now seeking permission is the safest and probably the most honorable rout especially if you affirm land ownership rights, but talk of liability seems like an abstraction. Tresspassers of any kind should assume all liability and consider the risks, including the possibility of a gun wielding landowner.

 

[rockm]

There are places that are loved by their owners, where each plant is hand picked, or at least known. There are public parks, gardens and nature areas to be shared. The unlawful removal of anything from these places should be absolutely condemned. I too would be offended by somone trespassing on land that I was living on or managing.
However, I do see a lot of land that is possessed for reasons totally independent of the life forms living on it. Powerline right of ways, train tracks, derelect and vacant commercial properties, empty lots and waste spaces. In most cases acces would be denied because it's less risky to say no and the proprietor has little to gain by granting permission. Now seeking permission is the safest and probably the most honorable rout especially if you affirm land ownership rights, but talk of liability seems like an abstraction. Tresspassers of any kind should assume all liability and consider the risks, including the possibility of a gun wielding landowner.

But, unfortunately, that's not the way it works. Liability is hardly an abstraction. The law is that the owner is liable for injury, even if the trespasser "assumes" some kind of liability--which isn't really valid. Rights of way, and train tracks are especially dangerous. There have been four people in my area in the last six months or so that have been hit by trains while they're walking on the track right of way. Electrical rights of way are also paths for underground cables and pipelines. hit one of those with your saw or shovel and YOU are liable for the service outage-- or the explosion...vacant buildings are magnets for a whole host of characters looking for stupid stuff to do. That's why asking for permission is a must for any collector.

And if you're caught on private property helping yourself, you can run into an unhappy property owner who is armed. I know my mom in Texas has a shotgun and knows how to use it. She is especially wary of people coming on her property uninvited and unexpected. At night, doubly so, expect buckshot... There is really no excuse NOT to ask...Not doing so is not only a dick move, but potentially dangerous for everyone involved.

 

[Quince]

But, unfortunately, that's not the way it works. Liability is hardly an abstraction. The law is that the owner is liable for injury, even if the trespasser "assumes" some kind of liability--which isn't really valid. Rights of way, and train tracks are especially dangerous. There have been four people in my area in the last six months or so that have been hit by trains while they're walking on the track right of way. Electrical rights of way are also paths for underground cables and pipelines. hit one of those with your saw or shovel and YOU are liable for the service outage-- or the explosion...vacant buildings are magnets for a whole host of characters looking for stupid stuff to do. That's why asking for permission is a must for any collector.

And if you're caught on private property helping yourself, you can run into an unhappy property owner who is armed. I know my mom in Texas has a shotgun and knows how to use it. She is especially wary of people coming on her property uninvited and unexpected. At night, doubly so, expect buckshot... There is really no excuse NOT to ask...Not doing so is not only a dick move, but potentially dangerous for everyone involved.

Sigh...
Alas yours is the more defensible position

 

[jriddell88]

But, unfortunately, that's not the way it works. Liability is hardly an abstraction. The law is that the owner is liable for injury, even if the trespasser "assumes" some kind of liability--which isn't really valid. Rights of way, and train tracks are especially dangerous. There have been four people in my area in the last six months or so that have been hit by trains while they're walking on the track right of way. Electrical rights of way are also paths for underground cables and pipelines. hit one of those with your saw or shovel and YOU are liable for the service outage-- or the explosion...vacant buildings are magnets for a whole host of characters looking for stupid stuff to do. That's why asking for permission is a must for any collector.

And if you're caught on private property helping yourself, you can run into an unhappy property owner who is armed. I know my mom in Texas has a shotgun and knows how to use it. She is especially wary of people coming on her property uninvited and unexpected. At night, doubly so, expect buckshot... There is really no excuse NOT to ask...Not doing so is not only a dick move, but potentially dangerous for everyone involved.

This is also true in Kentucky , we ask questions later , the hell will buckshot , they sell defender shells now , country folk in ky are not ones to mess with

 

[wrcmad]

Fark....
I'm with ya Beanwagon.
I also live in Oz, and can't believe the reaction and accusation of theft?!
There is shyteloads of land that belongs to nobody over here... Crown Land, comprising 25% of a country the same size as the US, with only 13% the population.
Highlights an obvious difference between this place and the US? Also highlights the tendency to jump straight on the litigious bandwagon... WTF? No one over here would care.
As for endangered species??? I pull casuarina out of my garden like weeds....

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Fark....
I'm with ya Beanwagon.
I also live in Oz, and can't believe the reaction and accusation of theft?!
There is shyteloads of land that belongs to nobody over here... Crown Land, comprising 25% of a country the same size as the US, with only 13% the population.
Highlights an obvious difference between this place and the US? Also highlights the tendency to jump straight on the litigious bandwagon... WTF? No one over here would care.
As for endangered species??? I pull casuarina out of my garden like weeds....

How is digging up a tree on property that doesn't belong to you anything other than theft? I can almost guarantee that the land belonged to someone, it's not just "there." And the fact that he did this at night solidifies that theory. It's less about people thinking he was crazy and more about doing something he shouldn't have been doing.

Stick up for him all you want, but it's pretty ridiculous to think you can dig up whatever you want whenever you want then call yourself a ninja for doing it. It's people like this guy who give the rest of us that go through hoops to get permits to dig something a bad name.

 

[CasAH]

Fark....
I'm with ya Beanwagon.
I also live in Oz, and can't believe the reaction and accusation of theft?!
There is shyteloads of land that belongs to nobody over here... Crown Land, comprising 25% of a country the same size as the US, with only 13% the population.
Highlights an obvious difference between this place and the US? Also highlights the tendency to jump straight on the litigious bandwagon... WTF? No one over here would care.
As for endangered species??? I pull casuarina out of my garden like weeds....

Crown Lands belong to the government. Therefore they belong to someone and removing items from them is theft plain and simple. If people cannot understand taking something that does not belong to is theft, do not move next to me. You will not live very long.

 

[wrcmad]

How is digging up a tree on property that doesn't belong to you anything other than theft? I can almost guarantee that the land belonged to someone, it's not just "there." And the fact that he did this at night solidifies that theory. It's less about people thinking he was crazy and more about doing something he shouldn't have been doing.

Stick up for him all you want, but it's pretty ridiculous to think you can dig up whatever you want whenever you want then call yourself a ninja for doing it. It's people like this guy who give the rest of us that go through hoops to get permits to dig something a bad name.

Something you guys just don't get... there is land that is "just there"... and in vast amounts. Seems this concept is quite foreign to you, and understandably so.
You should come and visit sometime, the vast amount of barren, uninhabited and unowned land (Crown land) land would surprise you.

 

[wrcmad]

Crown Lands belong to the government. Therefore they belong to someone and removing items from them is theft plain and simple. If people cannot understand taking something that does not belong to is theft, do not move next to me. You will not live very long.

Hang on... Crown land is Public Land managed by the government. A lot of it is unallocated land that is "just there". and is owned by the government by default more than purpose.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Something you guys just don't get... there is land that is "just there"... and in vast amounts. Seems this concept is quite foreign to you, and understandably so.
You should come and visit sometime, the vast amount of barren, uninhabited and unowned land (Crown land) land would surprise you.

I dunno man, it seems like everything in Australia can kill you. Spiders as big as dinner plates? NOPE.

 

[f1pt4]

Crown Lands belong to the government. Therefore they belong to someone and removing items from them is theft plain and simple. If people cannot understand taking something that does not belong to is theft, do not move next to me. You will not live very long.

Crown Lands belong to the taxpayer. You can camp on crown land for free. Fish unless protected, and you can collect trees, for the most part. For personal purposes, without the use of machinery. You can also forage for mushrooms and wild edibles. You can also hunt, unless prohibited.

National parks and provincial parks are protected. You can't do any of that there. Well you can camp and visit but for a fee.

Then there's private land. You need direct permission from the land owner.

In regards to crown land collecting, it is wise to first check with the Ministry of Natural Resources from the region you want to collect on, in order to be sure there are no specific conservation efforts, thus restrictions in place.

Seeing as Australia is part of the commonwealth, I'm assuming similar rules apply.

In the states. I dunno. It's all foreign to me.

 

[f1pt4]

Hang on... Crown land is Public Land managed by the government. A lot of it is unallocated land that is "just there". and is owned by the government by default more than purpose.

Unless they find a bounty of exploitable and profitable resources on it, then they'll gladly rape it and say it's for the betterment of the economy. But yeah.. for the most part it's just there, for public use. Problem is the majority of the public doesn't leave cities much, and doesn't know/care regarding the benefits of it's usage.

 

[Beanwagon]

Fark....
I'm with ya Beanwagon.
I also live in Oz, and can't believe the reaction and accusation of theft?!
There is shyteloads of land that belongs to nobody over here... Crown Land, comprising 25% of a country the same size as the US, with only 13% the population.
Highlights an obvious difference between this place and the US? Also highlights the tendency to jump straight on the litigious bandwagon... WTF? No one over here would care.
As for endangered species??? I pull casuarina out of my garden like weeds....

Could not agree with you more.

 

[Beanwagon]

How is digging up a tree on property that doesn't belong to you anything other than theft? I can almost guarantee that the land belonged to someone, it's not just "there." And the fact that he did this at night solidifies that theory. It's less about people thinking he was crazy and more about doing something he shouldn't have been doing.

Stick up for him all you want, but it's pretty ridiculous to think you can dig up whatever you want whenever you want then call yourself a ninja for doing it. It's people like this guy who give the rest of us that go through hoops to get permits to dig something a bad name.

 

[defra]

Either way theft or not
Put your pride aside and saying you realy didnt think this trough very well isnt that hard would it now?


I mean your title sligtly sugest you would have loved comments like great find or cool ninja mission ....

I mean at least atmid its kinda shady saying you do it at night so people wont think your crazy
If people would have seen you in the night diging that would be crazy.. who knows what they would have tought you where doing ....

Keeping this atitude up wil only result in dislike and ignorance from other forum users wich can help you out if you need help or have questions....would be a shame if others stop bothering to answer your questions or stop share valuable experience's with you....

 

[sorce]

Dude....

I have free reign in a few parks.
Permission from the park district President.

Still feel crazy as fuck!
I always go ass early to collect, or ask my kids to come with while I'm looking....

I've been pulled over for Staring at big trees one day...
I think he thought I was on Hallucinogens.

You ever see Breaking Bad?
Meth heads dig holes!

I was gonna say I'm with Craig....he's from Australia.
But now it @wrcmad ....

After talking to the Aussies about how freedom defines US bonsai, Ryan Neil asked them in Canberra what defines them.

"More freedom", sounds like actual freedom!

"We don't care", ahem...apply!

If the Aussie's are not mad, who the fuck are we to be?

Everything in Australia CAN kill you!
It's what breeds a respect for the land there that doesn't need laws.
The Browns balance the humans!

Besides....

How bout the flip?

Which is....

He does it in public, public sees, public finds a thread here on the value of yamadori, and 5 more people are out in the bush "stealing" the trees everyone is so God Damned worried about in the first place.

Makes that a pretty cool fucking Ninja mission to me!

Of course, this is equivalent to what the USA is anyway....
Trying to tell everyone else how to live their lives as if we have a clue about their customs, culture, etc...

Fuck em...
I went Vegan yesterday.
No more meat for sure.
No milk.
And I'm weaning myself off cream, and eventually coffee.
After that, cigarettes....done...

And I'll just be a healthy ass pothead!

Maybe I'll move to Australia!

Reckon I can build a baseball diamond on that crown land?
Or are you fucks gonna Ninja it into a rugby field when I'm sleeping?

Anyway...
For me, having more respect for Aussie's than Americans is nothing new.

Sorce

 

[Craigm]

In my part of the world there is alot of land clearing and development going on .When they do this they absolutely knock down every single tree they can find,

bulldoze them up and burn the lot

If you do some homework find out when where etc it is definately possible to gain permissions.
I never collect from public arena's ,forests,parks or places like this.
It is true Casuarina are in no danger in this country but there are places to collect them and place where they should be left untouched.

such as this water logged site which I was able to gain access to thru friends .
another site is approved for clearing so i sought out the farmer and gained his allowance to remove some melaleucas before works proceed.

Not all trees in all places should be removed from their habitat ,just because.
Do what you Love but do it right.