JBP where to next

[Vance Wood]

This is just my opinion; that and a $1.50 can get you a cup of coffee. However it is alright to have some sort of idea of where you want to go design wise with this tree. The down side of that decision is the tendency to accept some elements of this tree that over the path of a few years will become ugly and unmanageable artistically. Keep in mind the things I shared with you earlier, when you decide to do anything that does not have taking control of your tree as your major goal.

It is a real temptation to start a design on a tree that you may see at your current stage of development where, you will develop artistically faster than that your design will improve. In a few years you may have a tree you are not happy with and it become neglected or has to be restyled. Ben there done that. When that happens you will sit back and condemn yourself for not doing to the tree the things you should have done in the beginning. Ben there done that one too.

 

[badabing888]

@patrick sounds good to me! late jan for the first cut back

@vance if i could get a coffee for 1.50 i'd be a happy man, more like $5 here in the deep deep deep DEEP south!

But yes you are right the first steps are to get everything in control of course or i'll have a nice christmas tree for next year

 

[Vance Wood]

Whorls are an ubiquitous problem with Pines. It is the curse of the way Pines grow, especially, if they are healthy and vigorous. In order for a Pine grown from nursery stock to be credible the whorls have to be eliminated from the design. You can not allow those branches that form from one spot to continue to develop, they will, in the end, form what we loving call a knuckle.

Once you get the tree under control you can avoid whorls by removing the multiple buds that cause them to form, but that does little to help you from where you are at currently. You need to remove all but one or two of the multiple branches in the whorl. This means choosing one of the remaining branches to remain as a replacement branch for the top of the tree.

The problem I have with doing this is that, the beginnings of a knuckle have already started and even with the branches removed as described there is likely to be a swelling at that point that will take years to grow out. What you need to do is make that cut back and hope for some back budding below the knuckle. If you get some bud break allow it to develop for a year or two and then remove the the growth, that now includes the knuckle, down to the new growth.

This will essentially start you down the trail of clip and grow. It takes some time but you will get a far better trunk line by doing this. I would also suggest that you place the tree in a pond basket or something with a screen sided container to promote fine roots.

I know I wrote this but knowing what I know and how I got to know what I know I would seriously consider taking this approach. As the tree is now any type of effort to force this tree into some sort of style will meet with less than stellar results. You may get this or you may get that but, in the end if you don't do what is suggested above you will wind up with knuckles and bar branches in your design. It is kind of like what happens when you get in a hurry with anything and avoid the pre-requisites, like priming a wall before you paint it. I know, everybody wants to jump right into designing a bonsai and almost no one wants to spend time prepping a tree for design, they would rather go out and pay big bucks to get a tree that someone else has done this for them.

 

[badabing888]

Whorls are an ubiquitous problem with Pines. It is the curse of the way Pines grow, especially, if they are healthy and vigorous. In order for a Pine grown from nursery stock to be credible the whorls have to be eliminated from the design. You can not allow those branches that form from one spot to continue to develop, they will, in the end, form what we loving call a knuckle.

Once you get the tree under control you can avoid whorls by removing the multiple buds that cause them to form, but that does little to help you from where you are at currently. You need to remove all but one or two of the multiple branches in the whorl. This means choosing one of the remaining branches to remain as a replacement branch for the top of the tree.

The problem I have with doing this is that, the beginnings of a knuckle have already started and even with the branches removed as described there is likely to be a swelling at that point that will take years to grow out. What you need to do is make that cut back and hope for some back budding below the knuckle. If you get some bud break allow it to develop for a year or two and then remove the the growth, that now includes the knuckle, down to the new growth.

This will essentially start you down the trail of clip and grow. It takes some time but you will get a far better trunk line by doing this. I would also suggest that you place the tree in a pond basket or something with a screen sided container to promote fine roots.

Hi Vance,

thanks for the reply

This is essentially my plan i guess options on styling was the wrong way to phrase it, after everyone has given some good advice in this thread.
Basically i'm looking to remove it's current flaws in a two step process. i.e.

1. remove all branches except for 2 back to the current whorl and see how it reacts (i.e does it swell , do i end up with bad taper etc)
2. shorten the current excessively long branches and make sure there is not any new whorls forming do this proactively
3. Hope i get some back budding below the whorl and on the branches kept to give better options and possibly cut back to these if the whorl can't be grown out
4. most likely having to remove the whorl and using a lower branch as the new trunk line
5. clip and grow once some of the flaws are removed to get it in a better position to choose a definitive style down the road

I'm fully expecting this process to take 3-4 years