Japanese Maples that Root from Cuttings

[Ninecloud]

few more pictures of ed clarks seigen(which it might not be) in the spring. I did not have a side by side afterall.

 

[Ninecloud]

New shot today with close up of new growth

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Can anyone tell me what type of growth rate you are getting from your cuttings? I'm interested in years 2-5. I'm sure it's variety dependent but what's the best anyone has gotten? Is the typical stepping up the pot size each season the best course to thicken the trunks? Any insight is appreciated

 

[Canada Bonsai]

i have a few deshojo, they def get pinker then the deshojo, and beni maiko(being the brightest in spring), and all the other reds. these three pictures are all from the same tree, they bud pink(not red like deshojo and maiko), get red and start to green. I wanna say it holds the pink maybe just a couple weeks. i'll try to have a comparison of all side by side around the same time in spring.

Here is a picture from Meriggioli's book. I've posted it a few times in this forum but I think it's worth reposting again here.

I have had all 3 for a few years -- spring color/duration can vary from year to year, just like fall color, even on the same specimens

 

[Canada Bonsai]

Can anyone tell me what type of growth rate you are getting from your cuttings?

First 2 pics: Deshojo Cuttings taken May 2022 (in tray), repotted 6-8 weeks later (pot #1). Photo taken today, August 2023, so this is 18 months

Third pic: When I repot in Spring 2024 I prune the central shoot (pot #2), usually resulting in at least 2 shoots which will be 1 new leader and 1 sacrifice branch. Those are allowed to grow freely, and this picture is hypothetically 'Spring 2025' at the time of repotting (pot #3)

 

[Ninecloud]

Here is a picture from Meriggioli's book. I've posted it a few times in this forum but I think it's worth reposting again here.

I have had all 3 for a few years -- spring color/duration can vary from year to year, just like fall color, even on the same specimens

View attachment 504451

My copy of my favorite book is always close to me.

 

[Ninecloud]

First 2 pics: Deshojo Cuttings taken May 2022 (in tray), repotted 6-8 weeks later (pot #1). Photo taken today, August 2023, so this is 18 months

Third pic: When I repot in Spring 2024 I prune the central shoot (pot #2), usually resulting in at least 2 shoots which will be 1 new leader and 1 sacrifice branch. Those are allowed to grow freely, and this picture is hypothetically 'Spring 2025' at the time of repotting (pot #3)

I know you have Beni Chidori... and i know you know the demand here in the US. Ed Clark was one looking for one, and hes the one who get me Seigen(which i recall you searching for in Japan). Not sure if you have one yet, buttt just a heads up. He is in CA though, so there that challenge too.
edit. Actually nevermind - as i remember, you were responsible for getting a lot of clubs and nursery's some beni chidoris, so you;ve done enough for USA. Thank you for your service, patiently waiting for mine

 

[Maros]

First 2 pics: Deshojo Cuttings taken May 2022 (in tray), repotted 6-8 weeks later (pot #1). Photo taken today, August 2023, so this is 18 months

Third pic: When I repot in Spring 2024 I prune the central shoot (pot #2), usually resulting in at least 2 shoots which will be 1 new leader and 1 sacrifice branch. Those are allowed to grow freely, and this picture is hypothetically 'Spring 2025' at the time of repotting (pot #3)

Nice illustration. So you repot in May taken rooted cuttings in July-August, correct?

 

[Canada Bonsai]

Nice illustration. So you repot in May taken rooted cuttings in July-August, correct?

Yes. Here is a picture taken November 2019. This cutting was taken May 15, 2019, repotted around July/August 2019, and by November 2019 had sent out 3-4 shoots.
(I am in Quebec, but I have an extended growing season due to coldframe/greenhouse)

 

[leatherback]

Can anyone tell me what type of growth rate you are getting from your cuttings?

Year one (the one of rooting) I typically only get a few pairs of leaves, if I get new growth at all. Right now, about half of them have new growth, most of them forming the second pair of leaves.

The second year a foot or so on arakawa, deshojo.
The third year regular growth, which here is about up to 2 ft for arakawa. I have had deshojo reach 3ft in a year, in good years.
Not many last 3 years as normally in year 2 I start handing them off.

 

[Dan W.]

@Ninecloud I also purchased a 'seigen' from Ed Clark this year. It's a beautiful tree, but obviously different form my 'seigen' from Maplestone... lol. I have no idea which is right, or if either is for that matter. Both are beautiful though, and really that's enough for me. The one from Maplestone has much smaller leaves. Ed's looks almost identical to deshojo for me so far. I'll watch it for a few years to make up my mind though. I also noticed that Bill Valavanis' seigen has rather large leaves and looks similar to the tree from Ed.

I'm also waiting (trying to be patient) for Beni chidori to become available in the States.

Bonfire seems to be another tree we have mixed up here. I currently have two very different versions from different nurseries.

 

[Ninecloud]

@Ninecloud I also purchased a 'seigen' from Ed Clark this year. It's a beautiful tree, but obviously different form my 'seigen' from Maplestone... lol. I have no idea which is right, or if either is for that matter. Both are beautiful though, and really that's enough for me. The one from Maplestone has much smaller leaves. Ed's looks almost identical to deshojo for me so far. I'll watch it for a few years to make up my mind though. I also noticed that Bill Valavanis' seigen has rather large leaves and looks similar to the tree from Ed.

I'm also waiting (trying to be patient) for Beni chidori to become available in the States.

Bonfire seems to be another tree we have mixed up here. I currently have two very different versions from different nurseries.

I am observing the same thing, I get large leaves on it, and i assumed it was from fertilization. Gonna have to get the maplestone one now... I do notice that the colors are different, and different windows of how long they hold them, but the leaf size has me second guessing. Good to know Bill's is similar. This cultivar will continue to be mystery.

 

[Ninecloud]

@Ninecloud I also purchased a 'seigen' from Ed Clark this year. It's a beautiful tree, but obviously different form my 'seigen' from Maplestone... lol. I have no idea which is right, or if either is for that matter. Both are beautiful though, and really that's enough for me. The one from Maplestone has much smaller leaves. Ed's looks almost identical to deshojo for me so far. I'll watch it for a few years to make up my mind though. I also noticed that Bill Valavanis' seigen has rather large leaves and looks similar to the tree from Ed.

I'm also waiting (trying to be patient) for Beni chidori to become available in the States.

Bonfire seems to be another tree we have mixed up here. I currently have two very different versions from different nurseries.

I thought I'd share this, forgot to.

 

[Dan W.]

I thought I'd share this, forgot to.

Thanks! I have a few ideas for them. One I'm thinking about is rooting cuttings or layers and then adding root grafts with seedlings. I assume this would boost vigor just like a grafted tree but without a graft union in the trunk.. Any thoughts? I've even thought about thread grafting a few small seedlings on the tree instead of a layer.

 

[Ninecloud]

Thanks! I have a few ideas for them. One I'm thinking about is rooting cuttings or layers and then adding root grafts with seedlings. I assume this would boost vigor just like a grafted tree but without a graft union in the trunk.. Any thoughts? I've even thought about thread grafting a few small seedlings on the tree instead of a layer.

Sounds like a great idea! We'll see about increasing numbers of success. I've yet to try hard wood cuttings with them, still fairly new to the culture so it might take some time to ramp up.

 

[SeanS]

Thanks! I have a few ideas for them. One I'm thinking about is rooting cuttings or layers and then adding root grafts with seedlings. I assume this would boost vigor just like a grafted tree but without a graft union in the trunk.. Any thoughts? I've even thought about thread grafting a few small seedlings on the tree instead of a layer.

@Canada Bonsai has posted about this before, grafting seedlings through branches/trunks with the eventual plan to separate from the parent tree if I remember correctly.

He even posted some drawings he had made of the process

 

[Dan W.]

Here are a few I've had luck with so far, either cuttings or layers. I know I've seen most of them listed already, but here they are just in case any haven't.

Acer Palamatum seedling
AP Bonfire (according to Maplestone)
AP Calico
AP Kamagata
AP Orange Dream
AP Shin Deshojo
AP Wilsons Pink Dwarf

I had excellent results with late winter/hardwood cuttings from regular Acer palmatum, with radial roots as good as many of my air layers. Most of my cultivar hardwood cuttings weren't as successful, but I took those in fall and they sat all winter. I'm going to attempt many of those again in late winter instead of fall.

For what it's worth, I'm going to start listing cultivars like Seigen, Bonfire, Segai, and Akaji Nishiki as (according to: 'the nursery I purchased from') as there is a lot of variance between the nurseries on these cultivars.

 

[Pitoon]

My Deshojo cuttings have finally rooted...

 

[andrewiles]

My Deshojo cuttings have finally rooted...

Do you find you need to get a flush of growth on them before winter, to get decent survival rates?

That's been the case with me for most maples. Makes it hard to be successful with cuttings that root this late.

 

[Pitoon]

Do you find you need to get a flush of growth on them before winter, to get decent survival rates?

That's been the case with me for most maples. Makes it hard to be successful with cuttings that root this late.

Yes, it's a bit late in the season, so they will have to be babied.

These are being rooted in my basement. Those that root will stay down in the basement until temps hit a constant 50 degrees next year to safely move out side.