Impossible Question to Answer

[rockm]

Sloe is plum. There are many wild plum species here in N America They just haven’t been “discovered” for bonsai or have pretty pics in bonsai books.

You just have to look. They are vigorous growers and not hard to collect. I dug an old one out of a field in Texas and made the mistake of leaving it in the yard. The bucket had a hole in the bottom. The tree not only filled the soil in the bucket with roots in a year but began colonizing the backyard with sprouts from the escaped roots that pushed through the hole in the bucket

Black cherry is also an equivalent to sloe in character and can develop really gnarly and thick plated bark. They take to containers pretty well.

Any European species can be matched and surpassed by species in North America. We have some of the most biodiverse forests on the planet not to mention more land mass and climate zones.

The grass isn’t Always greener.

 

[jevanlewis]

My list:

1. Cedrus Libani*
2. Cedrus Brevifolia
3. Cedrus Atlantica
4. Mountain Hemlock
5. Subalpine fir

* Bonus points if you can somehow get the "Green Prince" variety on it's own roots. Not sure if taking the seeds from a grafted "Green Prince" would yield seedlings with the characteristics of regular Cedrus Libani or the "Green Prince" variety.

I bought seedlings of #1-4 this year, knowing that it will take decades to get them to reasonable sizes for bonsai. I have three yamadori of #5, but even these could use several decades of growth. I'll admit that #5 probably doesn't make sense to grow from seed since it is more readily available as yamadori.

 

[Weta]

Here's a few.
Kowhai (sophora microphylla)
Miro
Kahikatea
Totara
Kanuka/Manuka
Rimu

 

[Cadillactaste]

It looks like even the seeds are hard to come by. I'm on a waitlist. Any other species you'd like to see?

personally for myself. That's it. Sorry.

 

[JudyB]

Black cherry is also an equivalent to sloe in character and can develop really gnarly and thick plated bark. They take to containers pretty well.

Sadly they have great characteristics and character, but tend to have massive insect and fungal and rot issues. I’ve had several wonderful trunks that lasted some years and then declined, even with best practices.

 

[Gabler]

Sadly they have great characteristics and character, but tend to have massive insect and fungal and rot issues. I’ve had several wonderful trunks that lasted some years and then declined, even with best practices.

Every black cherry I've seen has been riddled with fungus. None looked worth collecting, notwithstanding the craggy, black bark.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

since no one else seems to be doing it

Plenty of people are doing it, despite what you might hear in podcasts.

And as it turns out, with exception of Takamatsu, the situation in Japan is very much like the situation in North America -- it is mostly hobbyists and backyard-size nurseries (often far far smaller than the backyards I'm familiar with in North-East USA) producing material and entering it into the market. Should more people be doing it? Yes absolutely, and I'm happy to hear you will be joining our large and ever-growing group of growers.

What species of field-grown tree would you buy in ten to twenty years? I'm going to buy some seeds and/or seedlings to grow, and I'd like to gauge what people will want to buy in ten to twenty years

It's important to grow species that are suitable for ground-growing, especially if you intend to sell the material. This is often species for which the nebari is not valued as highly as it is for Japanese Maples, for example. Also, you ideally want species that are known for deadwood and/or that can be allowed to grow freely and essentially be pruned quite 'carelessly' for 20 years (you don't want to be lying on your belly wiring thousands of branches). Ezo Spruce, Ume, Prunus tomentosa come to mind, as well as Chojubai, Gingko, Rose, Chimonanthus. Possibly Ilex, Styrax and Junipers but, in my opinion, these 3 will require special attention. Vaccinium (blueberry) and grape vine can be very interesting -- don't make the mistake of growing pinot noir for the sake of growing pinot noir Instead, select strains and hybrids that are well-known for their resistance to pests and diseases in your area. If you have the possibility of using stakes/trellises, do consider vines like Ampelopsis, Cocculus, Celastrus, and Wisteria. Have you considered Quercus, Sorbus and Rhus? I have never looked into these 3 properly myself, just thinking out loud.

 

[Gabler]

Plenty of people are doing it, despite what you might hear in podcasts.

And as it turns out, with exception of Takamatsu, the situation in Japan is very much like the situation in North America -- it is mostly hobbyists and backyard-size nurseries (often far far smaller than the backyards I'm familiar with in North-East USA) producing material and entering it into the market. Should more people be doing it? Yes absolutely, and I'm happy to hear you will be joining our large and ever-growing group of growers.



It's important to grow species that are suitable for ground-growing, especially if you intend to sell the material. This is often species for which the nebari is not valued as highly as it is for Japanese Maples, for example. Also, you ideally want species that are known for deadwood and/or that can be allowed to grow freely and essentially be pruned quite 'carelessly' for 20 years (you don't want to be lying on your belly wiring thousands of branches). Ezo Spruce, Ume, Prunus tomentosa come to mind, as well as Chojubai, Gingko, Rose, Chimonanthus. Possibly Ilex, Styrax and Junipers but, in my opinion, these 3 will require special attention. Vaccinium (blueberry) and grape vine can be very interesting -- don't make the mistake of growing pinot noir for the sake of growing pinot noir Instead, select strains and hybrids that are well-known for their resistance to pests and diseases in your area. If you have the possibility of using stakes/trellises, do consider vines like Ampelopsis, Cocculus, Celastrus, and Wisteria. Have you considered Quercus, Sorbus and Rhus? I have never looked into these 3 properly myself, just thinking out loud.

I say "ground growing," but really it will be a mix of ground growing and containers with escape roots that are pruned annually.

Off the top of my head, I have seedlings of Acer rubrum, Acer palmatum, Acer buergerianum, Pinus rigida, Pinus taeda, Pinus virginiana, Styrax japonica, Ginkgo biloba, Quercus alba, Quercus macrocarpa, Quercus macrocarpa x lyrata hybrids, Quercus palustris, Quercus ellipsoidalis, Quercus coccinea, Quercus bicolor, Ulmus americana, Taxus baccata, Buxus sp., Lagerstroemia indica, Lindera benzoin, and probably something else I'm forgetting about.

I presently have seeds for Celtis occidentalis, Celtis laevigata, Celastrus scandens, Ilex verticillata, Liquidambar styraciflua, Acer buergerianum, Euonymus alatus, Styrax Japonicus, and Prunus Americana.

 

[Gabler]

Morus alba, Lonicera japonica, and Euonymus fortunei have claimed a large part of the yard. I plan to tear them out to make room for ground growing, and I'll keep the ones with decent trunks.

I haven't bothered sowing seeds for Fagus grandifolia or Carpinus caroliniana beause they are common and easy to collect from the woods for my own use, but I may plant some seeds if there is a demand.

 

[Gabler]

Now I remember! Maclura pomifera.

 

[Gabler]

I also plan to propagate Juniperus horizontalis. It has a naturally contorted growth habit, and it is extremely easy to layer. Typically, it layers itself as it sprawls across the ground.

 

[coh]

It's important to grow species that are suitable for ground-growing, especially if you intend to sell the material. This is often species for which the nebari is not valued as highly as it is for Japanese Maples, for example. Also, you ideally want species that are known for deadwood and/or that can be allowed to grow freely and essentially be pruned quite 'carelessly' for 20 years (you don't want to be lying on your belly wiring thousands of branches). Ezo Spruce, Ume, Prunus tomentosa come to mind, as well as Chojubai, Gingko, Rose, Chimonanthus. Possibly Ilex, Styrax and Junipers but, in my opinion, these 3 will require special attention. Vaccinium (blueberry) and grape vine can be very interesting -- don't make the mistake of growing pinot noir for the sake of growing pinot noir Instead, select strains and hybrids that are well-known for their resistance to pests and diseases in your area. If you have the possibility of using stakes/trellises, do consider vines like Ampelopsis, Cocculus, Celastrus, and Wisteria. Have you considered Quercus, Sorbus and Rhus? I have never looked into these 3 properly myself, just thinking out loud.

Agree with the suggestion on ginkgo, seems to be difficult to find decent sized/developed specimens. Market seems to be dominated by sticks in pots or crazy expensive "mature" bonsai, with little middle ground.

 

[Cmd5235]

Oh, here’s another one I’d love to try- Persian ironwood, Parrotia persica. There’s one right by the front of longwood gardens that I always admire (if you’re looking at the front entrance from the parking lot, it’s in the right corner of the sidewalk just before the fencing and evergreens start to obscure the lower bus lot)

 

[Kievnstavick]

As a couple of people have mentioned (and I feel is important to reiterate), when it comes to North American (or non-traditonal species) few have been tried and true. Dare I say accepted as a species for bonsai.

For market feasibility of select species, anything not in the tried and true category for bonsai is more or less a gamble. The gamble being that in 10 years, will this species be more in demand as people learn about using this species for bonsai.

For this specific topic, I would have you ask yourself what is your goal for growing the trees from seed? If you are looking to grow trees from seed and then sell them, you are stuck with growing the sought after species. If you are looking to grow and explore more native species to increase the availability for bonsai, then you will have to put the work in. You will have to explore, learn, teach, and market the species to gain an accepted status.

For clarity, when I say accepted I am referring more to the general idea that the tree can work for bonsai. I have encountered many times a stereotype against a certain species with only accedotal explanations as to why it is scoffed at.

This is the gamble that you will be taking for the lesser known species. A gamble that the species gains demand and that you can sell said species to the masses.

As cruiser has mentioned, I have a strong interest in growing trees from seed. It is one of the things I love doing in general. My goal in this hobby is to grow quality pre-bonsai stock. One of the species that I plan to grow enmass is the Stika Spruce due in part to it being a native tree as well as the basic information out their seems to lean the species of being tolerant to the techniques we practice. I was quite disappointed in seeing a severe lack of bonsai specimens for the Sitka Spruce.

My hope is that over time, I can share with this community a wonderful new species. My intent will be to sell them only to compensate for some time involved and not for a profit. I dont really mind if there isn't a demand for this species in time. I'd really only want this Pacific Northwest species to become more known and accepted if it turns out to be a great species for bonsai.

I guess in summation it would be that my driving goal is to share my love for trees and interest in a specific species to the community.

Now to add to a secondary discussion, I do believe there are more people growing bonsai from seed then is perceived. They just don't have a market presence since they are more then likely growing for themselves or don't advertise themselves. Limiting their market to their local area. What I believe is the actual supply issue that the more vocal people in our hobby have spoken of is the lack of quality stock for bonsai.

Anyone can grow a tree from seed, but the hard part is growing a tree with interest, movement, and proper pruning to create the building blocks for a good tree in the future.

 

[Gabler]

As a couple of people have mentioned (and I feel is important to reiterate), when it comes to North American (or non-traditonal species) few have been tried and true. Dare I say accepted as a species for bonsai.

For market feasibility of select species, anything not in the tried and true category for bonsai is more or less a gamble. The gamble being that in 10 years, will this species be more in demand as people learn about using this species for bonsai.

For this specific topic, I would have you ask yourself what is your goal for growing the trees from seed? If you are looking to grow trees from seed and then sell them, you are stuck with growing the sought after species. If you are looking to grow and explore more native species to increase the availability for bonsai, then you will have to put the work in. You will have to explore, learn, teach, and market the species to gain an accepted status.

For clarity, when I say accepted I am referring more to the general idea that the tree can work for bonsai. I have encountered many times a stereotype against a certain species with only accedotal explanations as to why it is scoffed at.

This is the gamble that you will be taking for the lesser known species. A gamble that the species gains demand and that you can sell said species to the masses.

As cruiser has mentioned, I have a strong interest in growing trees from seed. It is one of the things I love doing in general. My goal in this hobby is to grow quality pre-bonsai stock. One of the species that I plan to grow enmass is the Stika Spruce due in part to it being a native tree as well as the basic information out their seems to lean the species of being tolerant to the techniques we practice. I was quite disappointed in seeing a severe lack of bonsai specimens for the Sitka Spruce.

My hope is that over time, I can share with this community a wonderful new species. My intent will be to sell them only to compensate for some time involved and not for a profit. I dont really mind if there isn't a demand for this species in time. I'd really only want this Pacific Northwest species to become more known and accepted if it turns out to be a great species for bonsai.

I guess in summation it would be that my driving goal is to share my love for trees and interest in a specific species to the community.

Now to add to a secondary discussion, I do believe there are more people growing bonsai from seed then is perceived. They just don't have a market presence since they are more then likely growing for themselves or don't advertise themselves. Limiting their market to their local area. What I believe is the actual supply issue that the more vocal people in our hobby have spoken of is the lack of quality stock for bonsai.

Anyone can grow a tree from seed, but the hard part is growing a tree with interest, movement, and proper pruning to create the building blocks for a good tree in the future.

Good points all around. I have no plan to quit my day job. I'm definitely interested in exploring new species, and I'll be selling trees to fund my hobby of growing trees, not to earn a big profit.

 

[Cruiser]

I do believe there are more people growing bonsai from seed then is perceived.

Here here.
Got some noble and silver fir, hemlock, and Douglas-fir seedlings chugging along.
Silver fir, grand fir, and Big-cone Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga macrocarpa) cones/seeds currently stratifying..
Also going to try alpine larch (Larix lyallii) seeds from cones I collected a couple years back, though they may be a long shot.

 

[Kievnstavick]

Here here.
Got some noble and silver fir, hemlock, and Douglas-fir seedlings chugging along.
Silver fir, grand fir, and Big-cone Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga macrocarpa) cones/seeds currently stratifying..
Also going to try alpine larch (Larix lyallii) seeds from cones I collected a couple years back, though they may be a long shot.

I, uh,....have a lot going
For next year I have planted:
Two different flowering cherries
Katsura (Cercidiphyllum japonicum)
Korean Fir
Korean Hornbeam
Pacific Madrone (because I badly want to make this one work)
Western Larch
Zelkova

Still to plant are:
Sitka Spruce
Dwarf Pomegranate
Sweet Bay Laurel

Seedlings that survived a full year:
Korean Fir
Dwarf Flowering quince
Serviceberry (Alnifolia)
(One) Bald Cypress
(One) Sitka Spruce
Dawn Redwood
Katsura
Zelkova
(Two) Flowering Cherry

I could of sworn I had some Princess Persimmon in there as well, but I couldn't find a log of it somewhere. Maybe just a fever dream thinking I bought some seeds. I'll look through my pile of seed bags later to confirm or not.

 

[Gabler]

Princess Persimmon

That reminds me, I planted a bunch of Diospyros virginiana in the fall.

 

[The Barber]

Black cherry is also an equivalent to sloe in character and can develop really gnarly and thick plated bark. They take to containers pretty well.

Ive potted up like 3 of them. They do great in containers, but the leaves size has been disappointing so far though sadly.

Korean Hornbeam, and Japanese beech get my votes. Wouldn't mind some large ones.

You might also do some clumps as well when you plant whatever you decide on. Run the saplings through a hole in a tile or board and let em go.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

As a couple of people have mentioned (and I feel is important to reiterate), when it comes to North American (or non-traditonal species) few have been tried and true. Dare I say accepted as a species for bonsai.

For market feasibility of select species, anything not in the tried and true category for bonsai is more or less a gamble. The gamble being that in 10 years, will this species be more in demand as people learn about using this species for bonsai.

This is a major consideration for somebody like me, whose space/time are limited and every inch counts towards paying rent. I need to grow the species that I know will be matched with an equal demand.

I have no plan to quit my day job. I'm definitely interested in exploring new species, and I'll be selling trees to fund my hobby of growing trees, not to earn a big profit.

This is the best news possible. It is exactly this spirit and somebody in this position who can afford to explore new species, find strains within those species, test these species' growth habits and reactions to our interventions, etc. This is how many of the species we use today were selected in Japan -- by curious hobbyists. It is somebody like you who will identify the species' that will be the 'North American Classics' in 50-100 years from now (regardless of what part of the world or Americas that species 'originated')