If you don't like perfect cookie cutter junipers, then don't look at this.

[october]

Ya, I knew the mugo was not natural. I posted it because it was so unique and unnatural..lol. I found it when I was searching for the other trees.

Rob

 

[davetree]

That last pine is one of my favorites as well. The last three bonsai pictured are very nice.

 

[elliott]

Bonsai LA

Attilla
No, I'm not thinking of Tak, but Tak is definatly within the top 3 in So. Cal.
and I agree, to many people here in LA, bonsai is a happy little hobbie and if it's a sunny day outside and we have nothing else to do, we will toodle on down to the bonsai meeting or show. And that's a big reason LA is a bonsai "dead space" there are so many well known bonsai artists around here, but they are famous for being a John Naka student, or being involved in club politics, not for making good bonsai.
Part of it is our climate and it's to hot to grow some things, but mostly because the bonsai leaders in the area are still living in John Naka's garage circa 1977. John was great. And if he was still alive, he would scream "get out of my garage"!
Things are still done like the old days around here, new people coming back from their aprentiships are given a cold shoulder, and I hate to say it, but it will be a few years before these people are not around anymore, so the cutting edge work can trickle in like it has in Nothern Cal. Many of the Bonsai "leaders" around here are against judged compettitions, which drive the quality up (just look at the trees in Japan).
In Northern Cal, you have Boon in the bay area, the Shimons and their awesome redwoods just north of that, and Ryan Niel in Portland and I don't even need to mention his impact.
The dead space I talk about is not my words. It's the term the pro's in Nor Cal and beyond
have used to describe So Cal when I ask them to come down and do some workshops.
If it was not for my teacher here, who I think is doing the most advanced work around, I would definatly think of moving up north. I hate the crappy winter weather up there, but I hate crappy bonsai more! The bonsai is better up there simply because most of the artist's up there are willing to except the new techniques coming out of Japan and are driven to try create the best trees possible.
As far as Shinji"s tree, yeah, that's to many pads for me to take care of and still have time to sleep. But that tree is an exception. The different nurseries in Japan all have their different styles, and their aprentices are going to learn that style. Most trees with good pad work are more managable.

 

[tmmason10]

Maybe I'm being ignorant, and maybe i should be able to guess who this is, but is it possible to say this persons name and not refer to them as the enigma that is "my teacher".

 

[gergwebber]

I hate the crappy winter weather up there, but I hate crappy bonsai more! The bonsai is better up there simply because most of the artist's up there are willing to except the new techniques coming out of Japan and are driven to try create the best trees possible.

hmmmmmmm.
crappy weather in nor cal? REALLY? I think that little bit of extra cold and rain you may be refering to as crappy weather is partly responsible for the"better bonsai."

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Southern California doesn't have the best bonsai weather... or at least, not the best weather for all species of classic Japanese bonsai like white pines on their own roots, etc. Japanese Maples tend to scorch down here as well. You pretty much have to be Bay area or north.

But we can keep tropicals

Hard to comment on your other thoughts. There are always going to be "doers" and "observers" in any hobby - and plenty of room for both, in my opinion. The ones who are difficult to work with are the observers who act like doers... but who aren't But I don't like to think about it because there is enough drama in life without it creeping into my bonsai.

 

[gergwebber]

But we can keep tropicals

Ill take five pounds of avocados. Do you deliver?

 

[elliott]

Sorry, my teacher is John Wang. Our study group kind of stays below the radar, so for some dumb reason, I naturaly just don't mention his name, but I am proud to be able to study under him.
I grew up in the San Fernando valley and I can't stand any kind of cool weather. That's why I reffered to the No. Cal. Winter as crappy. I lived in Sacramento for a few years, and compared to other places, it's not bad. I'm just a baby when it comes to cold.
But, it does make for good trees! And like I said, if it was not for John, I would move for sure! Its the end of summer and my trees are fried! A colder winter would be a small trade off for vibrant oaks and maples. My connifers are happy, however.
Yes, to much drama in life to worry what other people are doing with there trees, but it would be nice to see trees like I saw in Sacramentp at the GSBF convention a couple of weeks ago, in all the shows fown here.

 

[BigDave]

Sorry, my teacher is John Wang.

John is a cool cat. Get him for your club if you can, funny and good.

Check out ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkvQpem7aM8&feature=share&list=UUwRl5SUzqUW2hhhVpKqq8Ow

to see him in action

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Ill take five pounds of avocados. Do you deliver?

I just lost two big branches on one of my orange trees because it was so loaded with fruit the branch snapped right off the tree Getting close to season for my mandarins - I have three different varieties.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Back to the subject of this thread...

Here's what a juniper yamadori looks like in the wild. Compare the deadwood on this tree to the deadwood on the subject tree

 

[Attila Soos]

Attilla
No, I'm not thinking of Tak, but Tak is definatly within the top 3 in So. Cal.
and I agree, to many people here in LA, bonsai is a happy little hobbie and if it's a sunny day outside and we have nothing else to do, we will toodle on down to the bonsai meeting or show. And that's a big reason LA is a bonsai "dead space" there are so many well known bonsai artists around here, but they are famous for being a John Naka student, or being involved in club politics, not for making good bonsai.
Part of it is our climate and it's to hot to grow some things, but mostly because the bonsai leaders in the area are still living in John Naka's garage circa 1977. John was great. And if he was still alive, he would scream "get out of my garage"!

Thanks Elliott for your gutsy comments. I like the gist of your post. I very much agree that LA looks like a bonsai dinosaur these days, still living in the nostalgia of the past and the golden days of John Naka. But don't discount the old-timers just yet. Having John amongst us for such a long time, was a blessing, just as much as it may be a burden today. His act was a tough act to follow, and to live up to it. So, his students tried their best to live up to his legacy. In the meantime, time has passed them by, and we need to move forward, with new ideas. It's hard to do that, when all your life you lived under the guidance of John. You need a new generation to do that. You cannot expect people to do an about-face change, when they are in their 50s, 60s, and 70s.

Things are still done like the old days around here, new people coming back from their aprentiships are given a cold shoulder, and I hate to say it, but it will be a few years before these people are not around anymore, so the cutting edge work can trickle in like it has in Nothern Cal. Many of the Bonsai "leaders" around here are against judged compettitions, which drive the quality up (just look at the trees in Japan).

I agree again, although I don't know of incidents when the new generation of bonsai artists who studied in Japan were given the cold shoulder. It's hard for me to imagine that, but you may know something that I don't. My hope is that the old generation will embrace the ideas of the young ones, and the transition will be smooth and beneficial.

In Northern Cal, you have Boon in the bay area, the Shimons and their awesome redwoods just north of that, and Ryan Niel in Portland and I don't even need to mention his impact.
The dead space I talk about is not my words. It's the term the pro's in Nor Cal and beyond
have used to describe So Cal when I ask them to come down and do some workshops.
If it was not for my teacher here, who I think is doing the most advanced work around, I would definatly think of moving up north. I hate the crappy winter weather up there, but I hate crappy bonsai more! The bonsai is better up there simply because most of the artist's up there are willing to except the new techniques coming out of Japan and are driven to try create the best trees possible.

I love the climate up there as well the bonsai culture. If I had the chance I would move up north in a heart-beat. As BonsaiNut said, our climate doesn't really agree to the cultivation of traditional Japanese species. But that's fine. We just need to use trees that like the heat better.
Our trees are not quite as good as the ones you refer to, but we still have some amazing trees from a great number of people. Too many to mention.
I hope that you recognize a great tree, when you see one. Yes, I've seen many crappy trees, even in major exhibits, but I've also seen truly great trees here in LA. It's not as bad as it seems to be, from your criticism.

But again, I am glad that you are are eager to embrace the work ethic and ideals of this new generation of bonsai artists.

 

[Attila Soos]

John is a cool cat. Get him for your club if you can, funny and good.

Check out ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkvQpem7aM8&feature=share&list=UUwRl5SUzqUW2hhhVpKqq8Ow

to see him in action

Thanks Dave for the clip, now I know who Joh Wong is. I remember seeing him around, at every major event, but didn't realize who he was. But I've seen a few STUNNING trees that he brought, and I always wondered who he was. I remember that I liked him very much from the fist time that I've exchanged a few words with him.

The Bunjin tree that he created in that clip, shows how good he is. A lot of us wouldn't know what to do with those straight sticks that he used as material. I hope that he will become more and more prominent as a leader of the new generation down here. We really need people like him. May be one day we will catch up with those whipper-snappers in NorCal. But it may be that by that time I will move up to Mendocino, to enjoy the cool breeze of the redwood forests.

 

[elliott]

I apologise for pirating the thread away from the original "cookie". I will get back to that in a sec.
My LA deadspace comment was told to me by the "pro's" and Im not gonna name names cause, well, you know why.
Again Naka was great and I had the honor of watching him in action early in my bonsai life. I don't think he would be happy about what has happened to bonsai here compared with elsewhere.
I know there are good trees around here. My partner Nate and I are putting together the non judged display at the Golden State Bonsai Federation show in Burbank next Holloween weekend, so I am keenly aware of what's out there. After this years GSBF convention in Sacramento, the bar was set horribly high. Nate and I are going to take a road trip up north to "pimp" some great trees for our show. We will ofcource try and get the best from around here. It will be hard to find good trees that have not been in every show around here already.
Our climate is not what is holding us back down here and I am positive that we will "catch-up" to our friends up north as new open minded artist's join tne ranks.
As for the original topic, what is your point with the image of a wild desert juniper? The gins are very diffetent. But one is an actual tree, and one is an artist's interpretation of a wild tree. Just like Dega or Dali, it's not gonna be a drawing of an actual scene. It's what makes bonsai great, the mix of nature and art.
If I missed your point, Im sorry.
(i wrote this off my iphone, and was not to go back and correct mistakes, so pardon me, LOL)

 

[nathanbs]

Are you thinking of Tak Shimazu?

"Anybody who has a high skill level, can do those pads. It's not rocket science. But when you have such a complex series of so many pads, the tree becomes very high maintenance. An average person has little time to maintain that kind of tree, and one cannot afford a dedicated professional to keep the tree in shape. So, instead, we choose a much more simplified pad structure, whith significantly lower maintenace requirement."

You're right its not "Rocket Science", its fine art. And there are very little with a high enough skill level to do this. Until I see them do it, just once properly and perfectly, then I'll believe they can do it. I don't buy the lazy card. They don't necessarily need to be the ones to forever care for the tree as they could be making big bucks styling and selling their trees. Additionally there are a large number on bonsai enthusiasts that are retired that have nothing but time on their hands. Forever buying more trees to occupy their free time.

BTW love the tree in the post. Agree with the pot being too large and too plain.

Ill reserve judgement on No.cal versus So. cal as far as species friendliness is concerned. We cant do whitepine, winterberry, redwood and several others, but i do love the way my ficus and crapes grow.

 

[Attila Soos]

I don't buy the lazy card.

Not lazy. Just pragmatic.
I've never met a lazy bonsaist. If you are lazy, doing bonsai would be rather stupid. It's the most labor-intensive hobby in the world.

These are hard-working people.

 

[nathanbs]

sorry to have read lazy when thats not what you said but that is lazy by definition hence why i read it that way. Again whether its lazy or pragmatic just show me that you can do it and i will believe you. I should be adding a to my post as my tone is not trying to be rude

 

[BigDave]

Thanks Dave for the clip, now I know who Joh Wong is.

Right Wang pronounced wong, He is a very nice dude, humble and smart.

Elliot, Good to see you and nathanbs on here. We are venturing out a bit aren't we. Sorry to hear you sold your pet...a tortoise perhaps?


North Vs South needs a new thread, or not...whats the point since the very farthest south never get mentioned.... wink

The original trees is amazing, you will notice that very special trees get a break on the rule guidelines, its like they all agree that it is special and needs a little more room, just an observation.

Okay I'm back to the mudslinging, by that I mean ceramics not political insults

 

[tanlu]

I'm not a fan of any cookie-cutter tree, and frankly, that pot looks too much like a bathtub.

Those Japanese "au natural" bunjin white pines are quite inspirational, and right down my ally. Thanks for posting them!!!

 

[gergwebber]

for two days now I have been looking for this link..... it somewhere in my notes....

A few weeks ago, a guest lecturer in my Urban Forestry class sited a survey that found a link between childhood environment and the preference towards the type of tree the person would tend to plant in their front yard. the correlations were pretty strong, and the basic idea was that people tend to show a bias for the types of trees that may have grown up under, in and around.

So people from the mountians showed a bias toward pines, folks from the east coast to deciduous hardwoods and folks from the west coast, redwoods, firs and the like.

I bet that applies here, whenever someone asks: do you like this?