How come you don't see seed produced on Chinese Elm Bonsai?

[Danny Tuckey]

So I've just been thinking and it hit me. Why don't you ever see any samaras on Ch. Elm bonsai? Do they have to be old trees or what?
I've never seen any bonsai pictures of samaras on Chinese elms.
Enlighten me

 

[BobbyLane]

Not familiar with the term samaras. you mean you havnt seen any C elms grown from seed?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Not familiar with the term samaras. you mean you havnt seen any C elms grown from seed?

Samaras are the flat, papery cases that elm seeds come in. They are often edible.

I have no idea why I don't see them on elm bonsai - but if I had to guess it is because we constantly prune them away(?)

 

[penumbra]

I have one cluster on my slippery elm but none of my other elms have produced them.

 

[ShadyStump]

Could they be too SMALL to make them?

From my very limited experience in orchards I've heard that there are some trees that have to reach a certain TRUNK SIZE, not just age, in order to produce. Since I started in on bonsai I've seen the notion laughed at, and have come to question it as the unscientific supposition of people who only know that a tree has to grow up to produce fruit, but now that you mention it I wonder if there's actually something to it.

if I had to guess it is because we constantly prune them away(?)

If that were the case then anyone who's let one grow out would likely have seen it.

 

[Hartinez]

Pretty sure @Bonsai Nut answered your question. I’ve dug several Siberian elm that before digging produced an abundance of seeds, but when collected and potted as bonsai, not a one. Even if I let shoots grow extensively for a season.

 

[Hartinez]

Could they be too SMALL to make them?

From my very limited experience in orchards I've heard that there are some trees that have to reach a certain TRUNK SIZE, not just age, in order to produce. Since I started in on bonsai I've seen the notion laughed at, and have come to question it as the unscientific supposition of people who only know that a tree has to grow up to produce fruit, but now that you mention it I wonder if there's actually something to it.


If that were the case then anyone who's let one grow out would likely have seen it.

I’ve let several grow all year. But prune by the end of the year. Probably removing the ability for them to produce seeds come spring.

 

[ShadyStump]

I’ve let several grow all year. But prune by the end of the year. Probably removing the ability for them to produce seeds come spring.

Then do they produce their flower buds the summer before like lilacs do?
I've not paid close enough attention to know.

I'd say it could be that they need a pollinating partner, but then anyone with multiple would've seen seeds.

I did get my first Chinese elm this year, and it could use some meat on it's bones, so I'll be letting it grow out, likely through next year. If I remember I'll keep an eye out.

 

[Shibui]

Chinese elm in my garden flower really late summer then the seeds mature in just a few weeks.
My guess would also be trimming. Trimming through spring and summer would remove buds before they develop and flower
i should check on the garden trees to see if flowers are on older wood or summer growth.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I believe elms in general are "self sterile" they need to be pollinated by a tree of the same species, but of a different clone or cultivar. If you have only one "Chinese elm" for example 'Corticosa' you would need a second elm from a different seed origin, perhaps 'Sejiu' or the normal form 'Lacebark' so that there are unrelated pollen and receptive flowers.

I imagine size is also an issue.

Elm flowers are not very showy. The flowers have no petals, apetalous. Ulmus parvifolia - Chinese elm flowers in early autumn, I believe on current year's growth. Samsaras (seed) develops rapidly and is usually ripe by early winter of the same year, 2 to 3 months. You would need to forego pruning for at least one maybe 2 entire growing seasons to see seed develop. The yellowing and browning leaves can "hide" the browning seed, you might not notice seed if there were only a few.

By the way, one of the key traits in separating one elm species is from another is whether the species flowers in spring, late summer or autumn. And when the seed ripen. These 2 traits are in the diagnostic keys. along with number of teeth on a leaf margin. Very difficult group to correctly identify.

 

[ShadyStump]

Well, he did it again.
Some of us have fun learning the hard way, man!

 

[BobbyLane]

Samaras are the flat, papery cases that elm seeds come in. They are often edible.

I have no idea why I don't see them on elm bonsai - but if I had to guess it is because we constantly prune them away(?)

View attachment 453940

I pass an elm growing out the pavement and noticed these on it yest...are these samaras?
these ones dont look to edible tho!
South West London variety

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I pass an elm growing out the pavement and noticed these on it yest...are these samaras?
these ones dont look to edible tho!
South West London variety

No, those are just dead crinkled leaves. That tree appears to have some sort of infestation. Don't eat it That doesn't even meet minimum South West London standards

Different elm trees will flower at different times of the year. Chinese elms flower in the summer and fruit in the fall.

Here's a local elm for you to check out - Wych Elm (U. glauca) with some photos of samaras. Wych elm (like American elm) flowers in the spring and fruits in the early summer.

 

[BobbyLane]

No, those are just dead crinkled leaves. That tree appears to have some sort of infestation. Don't eat it That doesn't even meet minimum South West London standards

Different elm trees will flower at different times of the year. Chinese elms flower in the summer and fruit in the fall.

Here's a local elm for you to check out - Wych Elm (U. glauca) with some photos of samaras. Wych elm (like American elm) flowers in the spring and fruits in the early summer.

Ok yeh those look a little more flat in that link..
check this out, theyre not dried leaves although there are dried leaves in amongst them, but looks like some sort of dried out fruiting body. Not seen this before, theyre like pouches

 

[penumbra]

Looks like some sort of fungus body.

 

[BobbyLane]

Looks like some sort of fungus body.

could be yeh

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

cankers

not the kind you go to the clinic for

 

[Potawatomi13]

Ok yeh those look a little more flat in that link..
check this out, theyre not dried leaves although there are dried leaves in amongst them, but looks like some sort of dried out fruiting body. Not seen this before, theyreView attachment 455552 like pouches

These appear as Birch personally.