Eckhoffw
Masterpiece

I’m very happy I have my greenhouse set up
It naturally stays 10 to 15° warmer in here.
My plants have been frozen solid for the last couple weeks, so I am hoping they froze saturated with enough water.


It's supposed to go down to as low as 17F tonight but the rest of the week will be above 20 at night and in the 30s during the day.
Wonder if I really need to worry about my cold weather crew (mugo, scots and JWP) sitting on my bench. Walter Paul says we baby our trees too much and I tend to agree.
But where is that line? I still struggle with this every year.
I could move them down onto the deck next to the house for the next few days for a little extra protection.
@Dav4
I'd appreciate your opinion since you lived in Massachusetts and now sunny Michigan
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Just not in potsI didn't even get around to mulching any of my trees in this year, and they're not even in the best spot in the yard. Have to keep them behind a makeshift fence or else the dog likes to chew on them.
The only ones that got any special treatment are a couple collections from spring that I really don't want to lose, and those are on the porch against the wall of the house with a cardboard box closing them in.
I see allot of effort going into protecting trees that can very easily stand the conditions most are describing.
Relax! Trees have been doing this stuff allot longer than us. If it's a really really special one, than ok, but the rest are usually fine.
Oh, I understand that life in a pot is very different from life in the ground. I just figure a good rule of thumb is assume you lose one full growing zone on each end of the tree's normal range once it's in a pot. Example: if a tree normally thrives in zones 5 through 8, putting it in a pot makes it 6 and 7 assuming you do next to nothing to protect it.Just not in pots. Full disclosure... I allow my trees to freeze solid every winter and don't mind if they stay that way for weeks or months, and I've routinely stated that overwintering deaths are most likely due to the deceased tree entering dormancy in a weakened state. Still, winter cold in some locales definitely can cause tree damage or worse. My back yard warmed all the way up to 10 F today but will be well below 0 F tomorrow and we probably won't see 20 F for a week, and some of my best trees are sitting out there, frozen solid all while sitting on a concrete block patio. Still, they're out of the sun and wind (mostly) and are mulched and have snow pushed up against them. Even without the snow, their placement and mulch would be enough. Still, less than ideal overwintering placement +/- once in a decade cold may smack you and your trees in the mouth if you are unlucky.
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I should have added that, in my opinion, the KISS axiom to overwintering trees should apply but often isn't followed. Bonsai hobbyists are way too prone to overwintering trees inside- be that in a garage, basement, shed, etc., rather than outside in a protected area- on the north side of a house, shed, fence, etc.,- mulched and with a natural (landscape planting) or constructed (stacked hay bales or staked burlap) windbreak. Getting your cold hardy trees through the winter inside requires lots of effort and oversight and if you're not diligent in your care, you may end up with trees braking dormancy several months too early or dead trees that dried out at some point. My trees outside on the patio are in the "set it and forget it" mode because once they're placed in their overwintering spot and mulched in, I really don't do anything with them until it's warm enough to move them back out on the benches in March or April. I will periodically water (or place snow on top of the mulch there) the trees right up against the walls of my house because the eaves of my house are extremely deep and theoretically could dry out because they won't receive natural precipitation. Still, if the mulch freezes and stays that way, the most I'll do is add snow when available.Oh, I understand that life in a pot is very different from life in the ground. I just figure a good rule of thumb is assume you lose one full growing zone on each end of the tree's normal range once it's in a pot. Example: if a tree normally thrives in zones 5 through 8, putting it in a pot makes it 6 and 7 assuming you do next to nothing to protect it.
I guess it just bugs me because the first couple years I tried so hard to protect my trees, but suffered possibly more losses than when I hardly tried. Stressing out, overthinking everything, winding up with the same results as if I'd done nothing.
Lol I have that book, don't recall that table. The other page where all the pines are is what I need to look at. Will definitely do that after dinner here. ThanksI didn't even get around to mulching any of my trees in this year, and they're not even in the best spot in the yard. Have to keep them behind a makeshift fence or else the dog likes to chew on them.
The only ones that got any special treatment are a couple collections from spring that I really don't want to lose, and those are on the porch against the wall of the house with a cardboard box closing them in.
I see allot of effort going into protecting trees that can very easily stand the conditions most are describing.
Relax! Trees have been doing this stuff allot longer than us. If it's a really really special one, than ok, but the rest are usually fine.
I hear this argument a lot. I always go back to Michael Hagedorn’s Bonsai Heresy, chapter 13. Here, he presents an argument backed by a university research study (albeit unpublished) and the practices of one the largest nurseries in the country that hardiness in the natural environment is not as closely coupled to hardiness as one might expect. Hardiness zones are only based on “top kill” temperatures, as the earth insulates roots enough for root kill to not be a primary factor in viability. A plants ability to survive in certain ABOVE ground conditions do not necessarily imply it’s ability to survive if the conditions below the soil line are at a similar level.I see allot of effort going into protecting trees that can very easily stand the conditions most are describing.
Relax! Trees have been doing this stuff allot longer than us. If it's a really really special one, than ok, but the rest are usually fine.
I think you were trying to quote @Kievnstavick. LoLLol I have that book, don't recall that table. The other page where all the pines are is what I need to look at. Will definitely do that after dinner here. Thanks
I understand, and I'm not saying everyone should just lay back and do nothing.I hear this argument a lot. I always go back to Michael Hagedorn’s Bonsai Heresy, chapter 13. Here, he presents an argument backed by a university research study (albeit unpublished) and the practices of one the largest nurseries in the country that hardiness in the natural environment is not as closely coupled to hardiness as one might expect. Hardiness zones are only based on “top kill” temperatures, as the earth insulates roots enough for root kill to not be a primary factor in viability. A plants ability to survive in certain ABOVE ground conditions do not necessarily imply it’s ability to survive if the conditions below the soil line are at a similar level.
And all this is just a discussion of our plants surviving, but I would hope the goal is not just basic survival but thriving. I follow what experts who make their livelihoods on plants do, as for them its do or die—I am yet to hear a professional simply dismiss winter protection as something to relax about.
I do understand what you’re saying in terms of causing harm trying to do good. I think the key is to make a plan based on your area and the experiences and successes of others, stick to the plan, and then relax.
…unless you get early leaf out, then figure out something quick.
edited to add: me and @Kievnstavick are on the same page (literally in this case!) as i see you posted the chart from that book above!
Read that chapter yesterday and I will do what I can to keep my potted trees safe from the sub-zero weather while I can...I hear this argument a lot. I always go back to Michael Hagedorn’s Bonsai Heresy, chapter 13. Here, he presents an argument backed by a university research study (albeit unpublished) and the practices of one the largest nurseries in the country that hardiness in the natural environment is not as closely coupled to hardiness as one might expect. Hardiness zones are only based on “top kill” temperatures, as the earth insulates roots enough for root kill to not be a primary factor in viability. A plants ability to survive in certain ABOVE ground conditions do not necessarily imply it’s ability to survive if the conditions below the soil line are at a similar level.
And all this is just a discussion of our plants surviving, but I would hope the goal is not just basic survival but thriving. I follow what experts who make their livelihoods on plants do, as for them its do or die—I am yet to hear a professional simply dismiss winter protection as something to relax about.
I do understand what you’re saying in terms of causing harm trying to do good. I think the key is to make a plan based on your area and the experiences and successes of others, stick to the plan, and then relax.
…unless you get early leaf out, then figure out something quick.
edited to add: me and @Kievnstavick are on the same page (literally in this case!) as i see you posted the chart from that book above!
I sneaked a look at the pictures on the wall. Beautiful family!Bob says “I’m cold… turn the damn heat up”
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Most of those photos are at least 15 years old... I was much much much much more photogenic back then. Luckily, the kids take after their motherI sneaked a look at the pictures on the wall. Beautiful family!