Gallery of some really crappy trees

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Sorry, new and late to this debate...

For this takes something that funny enough is one of the few things that money can not buy...
and that is talent...

Wow, are you telling me that Kathy Shaner, Boon, Ryan Neil, Michael Hagedorn, Peter Warren, Peter Tea, and Bjorn wasted their money? I am glad you clued me in on this cause I was getting ready to go to Japan. I guess I will just stay home and do the tried and true "learn by my mistakes method".

Give me a break.
 
Wow, are you telling me that Kathy Shaner, Boon, Ryan Neil, Michael Hagedorn, Peter Warren, Peter Tea, and Bjorn wasted their money? I am glad you clued me in on this cause I was getting ready to go to Japan. I guess I will just stay home and do the tried and true "learn by my mistakes method".

Give me a break.

I am...
My friend who has a ton of money went to Japan a couple of months ago and didn't learn a damn thing about bonsai...
in fact when he got back I even asked him if he saw any really cool Bonsai while he was there and he said he didn't even notice...
He said he was to busy checking out the folding down vending beds and drinking Sake'... go figure???
NUM-NUTS !!!

I wouldn't un-pack those bags just yet, Beside I didn't think one of your superiority made mistakes...
 
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I am...
My friend who has a ton of money went to Japan a couple of months ago and didn't learn a damn thing about bonsai...
in fact when he got back I even asked him if he saw any really cool Bonsai while he was there and he said he didn't even notice...
He said he was to busy checking out the folding down vending beds and drinking Sake'... go figure???
NUM-NUTS !!!

I wouldn't un-pack those bags just yet, Beside I didn't think one of your superiority made mistakes...

Good to know you hang out with brite people too.....
 
i never said dont buy cheap material as i have a few myself. but i know that theyll amount to no more than decent little trees even after training em for 20 years certainly not $2000 dollar trees. and when i say cheap i meant the 15 dollar material that vance is talking about. i personally think spending a couple hundred bucks for one good pre bonsai is better than buying 5 or 6 home depot crap.


Thanks for this thread Vance. Beautiful trees.

Its funny to hear that people believe someone should spen $2000 on material in order to have a "decent" bonsai. Out here in California $2000 will buy a whole lot. One doesn't need to spend more than $500 for material more if you want a really big tree. I always laugh at the material posted on online seller's sites. The amount of money they want for barely suitable material. You could probably drive out here and buy and pay less money.

For most of us its just a hobby.


Rich
 
I would have to say that some of those there folks you mentioned might of had some talent before they went off and spent all that money in distant lands ???

By the way, won any other really cool awards lately???
 
i never said dont buy cheap material as i have a few myself. but i know that theyll amount to no more than decent little trees even after training em for 20 years certainly not $2000 dollar trees. and when i say cheap i meant the 15 dollar material that vance is talking about. i personally think spending a couple hundred bucks for one good pre bonsai is better than buying 5 or 6 home depot crap.

I would for the most part, hope that something you are spending a hundred dollars on is better than some cheap plants from the Home Depot.

I think the point of the thread was not to necesarily argue about whether or not home depot plants are cool or not, or if famous bonsai people spent lots of money going to Japan, or something ???
For I think it is pretty clear to those of us who actually use that 10 pound weight above our shoulders, that the intent was to show that some remarkable work can surprisngly come from rather humble beginnings...
go figure ???

But then again if it doesn't cost alot, it must not be really worth much right ??? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blood-Orange-Tree-/110782811597?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cb2b8dcd
 
and you keep missing my point its not remarkable work that come from these humble beginnings its decent work. if you wanna see remarkable work you have to buy decent beginnings

I would for the most part, hope that something you are spending a hundred dollars on is better than some cheap plants from the Home Depot.

I think the point of the thread was not to necesarily argue about whether or not home depot plants are cool or not, or if famous bonsai people spent lots of money going to Japan, or something ???
For I think it is pretty clear to those of us who actually use that 10 pound weight above our shoulders, that the intent was to show that some remarkable work can surprisngly come from rather humble beginnings...
go figure ???

But then again if it doesn't cost alot, it must not be really worth much right ??? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blood-Orange-Tree-/110782811597?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cb2b8dcd
 
4444356077_WhatYouTalkinBoutWillis_answer_101_xlarge.jpg
and you keep missing my point its not remarkable work that come from these humble beginnings its decent work. if you wanna see remarkable work you have to buy decent beginnings


Humm... so if a "Bonsai nursery" goes to Home Depot and buys some junipers and then takes them back to their nursery and wacks a couple of branches off an sells it to you for a hundred dollars as "Pre-bonsai", is it going to turn out to be that much more of a "reamarkable tree"???

I guess to the nursery it is...
 
if your idea of decent beginnings are whacked out junipers from home depot that someone resells well then sorry i cant help you. when i said go buy something better than a 15 dollar home depot tree i didnt mean go be dumb and get ripped off.


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Humm... so if a "Bonsai nursery" goes to Home Depot and buys some junipers and then takes them back to their nursery and wacks a couple of branches off an sells it to you for a hundred dollars as "Pre-bonsai", is it going to turn out to be that much more of a "reamarkable tree"???
 
i personally think spending a couple hundred bucks for one good pre bonsai is better than buying 5 or 6 home depot crap.

I am right there with you... and so is Vance (honestly he is) .... believe me I have fought tooth and nail to convince people to save a little and choose to buy from some place with better material...

*HOWEVER* this not always feasible (you do realize there are other parts of the country other than where you live) and sometimes getting access to a "couple hundred dollar pre-bonsai" is not even an option.... this is when taking the time to look hard at the nursery trade and find something can lead to success ... it's either that or give up for some people... and I for one would certainly rather see them try than give up... if they learn how to see the potential then they will have success at some level

So here we are.... talking about some trees that were created in a similar situation .... can't we just chill out and appreciate that some very nice trees were created from such humble beginnings? can't we appreciative that Vance took the time to post the trees so we could enjoy them ?
 
if your idea of decent beginnings are whacked out junipers from home depot that someone resells well then sorry i cant help you. when i said go buy something better than a 15 dollar home depot tree i didnt mean go be dumb and get ripped off.

It might help if you could show everyone some examples of material they should be buying.... maybe some of your trees?
 
if your idea of decent beginnings are whacked out junipers from home depot that someone resells well then sorry i cant help you. when i said go buy something better than a 15 dollar home depot tree i didnt mean go be dumb and get ripped off.

Ok... I'll play...
so, what then constitutes "descent beginnings" ???
and how then is one to identify that the tree you are about to buy has them... descent begins, I mean ???
Perhaps there should be some sort of a sticker or something, like the good ol' made in the USA, so people would know... for I think we have all seen our fair
share of bonsai trees without "descent beginnings"... I for one, know I have.

Perhaps there could be some sort of petigree type papers that came with the tree showing it's lineage throughout the ages ???
Kinda like what they have with dogs... could you just imagine ???
Just one more thing for us all here at B-NUT to argue over...

I'm thinking that those trees without "descent beginnings" could be refered to as "mutts"???
This way we all would clearly know what the hell was going on around here...
:p
 
answer: vance's trees so long as theyre not priced for 2000. most nurseries will or should have em for a couple of hundred bucks give or take
 
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Reality is, ANY 15 or 20 buck tree/plant is missing something that is extremely crucial to good bonsai and that is maturity. The spruce you showed Vance, i believe is the plant you were offered $2K for, mate you should have broke his leg so he couldn't get away, in my opinion. That's a hundred buck tree (+ pot etc) in just about any garden nursery here, for you to have sold it to anybody for that much money would have prompted me to have less respect for you, and i do respect you and know that you do have better trees than these you have shown here.

You all have your opinions and believe you are correct, and that's fine but getting personal and spreading that ill feeling is just something i don't wish to deal with. I dont share my pictures and experience's here at BN much anymore because of the high volume of crap that used to go on and now seems to be sneaking back in again.

Personally i think you should all take a cold shower, get off your high horse's and start enjoying bonsai again. The stuff in this thread is infectious, I for one don't wish to be a part of that. Let it go guys.
 
It's amazing how hostile it gets on this forum sometimes. Vance, youve shown some nice trees and I appreciate it. I do think however that if possible, buying a older tree for a little more money that was worked for bonsai, gives you (hopefully) a better start to a show able tree. I am just glad people on this site are nice to beginners because it seems like all the veterans want to constantly attack each other and is completely unnecessary. There's a lot of good trees and insight on this forum though and that is why I keep coming back.

Joining a two year bonsai school so expect for me to post a lot of "crap" this year.
 
answer: vance's trees so long as theyre not priced for 2000. most nurseries will or should have em for a couple of hundred bucks give or take

So essentially you are saying the tree is worthless. The pot alone is two-hundred dollars.
 
It's amazing how hostile it gets on this forum sometimes. Vance, youve shown some nice trees and I appreciate it. I do think however that if possible, buying a older tree for a little more money that was worked for bonsai, gives you (hopefully) a better start to a show able tree. I am just glad people on this site are nice to beginners because it seems like all the veterans want to constantly attack each other and is completely unnecessary. There's a lot of good trees and insight on this forum though and that is why I keep coming back.

Joining a two year bonsai school so expect for me to post a lot of "crap" this year.

It's peculiar that you would make this comment to me when I have attacked no one. I said at the beginning what the responses have, in some cases confirmed; my trees are crap in certain eyes.
 
and you keep missing my point its not remarkable work that come from these humble beginnings its decent work. if you wanna see remarkable work you have to buy decent beginnings

Not wishing to argue over semantics and with all due respects, remarkable work comes from remarkable artists, which I am not---apparently. I have seen some remarkable and expensive material turned into compost in a single afternoon by someone believing as you have written. There is a whole book of experience, work and sweat equity between remarkable material and remarkable work. For your sake I hope you don't believe this hubris or you are going to spend a lot of money and lose a lot of trees. I have seen that happen as well. I personally know someone who spent many thousands of dollars buying a lot of remarkable trees at remarkable prices that he was not ready to care for and they all expired in a remarkable display of foolishness in thinking you can buy a masterpiece and therefore become a master by association.

Unless you have someone of high caliber and ability to baby sit your efforts; a remarkable first tree excursion into the world of bonsai is more likely headed for remarkable disaster than a remarkable bonsai.
 
It's peculiar that you would make this comment to me when I have attacked no one. I said at the beginning what the responses have, in some cases confirmed; my trees are crap in certain eyes.
Nothing peculiar about it. I didn't say you were attacking anyone and I don't think you usually do. What I was trying to say is that a lot of topics start off innocent enough and then turn into a measuring contest. What I mean is that this isn't necessary because you all have good trees regardless on how they were acquired.
 
Nothing peculiar about it. I didn't say you were attacking anyone and I don't think you usually do. What I was trying to say is that a lot of topics start off innocent enough and then turn into a measuring contest. What I mean is that this isn't necessary because you all have good trees regardless on how they were acquired.

I don't wish to drag an innocent third party into this but one of our members desired to see some of my trees and I told him that I don't post much anymore because of these type of reactions. It seems to me that of all the people who post on this site I am the only one where posting a masterpiece is required. The responses I seem to get from the legendary and legendary wannabees is decent, mediocre, and cheap. It is true I do not buy finished or semi-finished trees. I have no desire to do that.

We all have our own reasons for doing bonsai. Some want to have these fabulous pieces of art, and others like me, get their kicks out of making them. I don't care if it takes me years to get a tree to a point that maybe I could have purchased from someone else at a price. Bonsai is like sex. Foreplay is often more fun than actually experiencing the little death. In the end the tree, good, bad or indifferent, is all my work.

I know there are people who disdain my sources; the nursery trade, but seldom the big box stores just to clarify things, I am not without my standards.

I have also mentioned this before but I will again because I believe it to be true. With a government agency sticking it's nose into everything we do how long do you think it will be before the nursery trade will be the only source for bonsai material? If the government can put thousands of businesses with thousands of workers and their families out of work and livelihood for the sake of some little-bitty fish they considered endangered, how long do you think they will allow collecting from the Mountains and deserts of North America to continue?

From what I understand, purchasing imported trees is becoming even more difficult than before and it never has been a good way to get material. As to pre-bonsai: if you desire to go this rout you have to remember these supposedly designed for bonsai trees have to have an original source somewhere.

So I guess the question here is: Why would you want to pay a bundle of money to someone to do the kind of stuff to a tree that you could do yourself----or in many cases should do, but don't know how? Sure it's quicker and that's OK, go for it. But try not to be critical of me because I chose to take the longer road.
 
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