Gallery of some really crappy trees

[Klytus]

I see the problem here,it's no use placing a Dollar value on Bonsai as the real enthusiasts value in Yen.

Long may it be so!

A case could be made for Valuing in other eastern currencies,but not yet.

 

[Mystogan]

if you had posted "Decent trees that can be had for 50 dollars" then i would have no problem with it. you went over board by comparing em to 2800 trees thats all. and i would still like to see that 15 dollar tree that someone offered you 2000 for. if only to shut me up

I never suggested that, it was you that suggest a $20 dollar tree will never be worth more than $20 dollars.

While I'm thinking about it; did I offend your in another life? This seems personal.

 

[Vance Wood]

With the sardonic tone of the original post (and the title), it was to be expected that this thread has gone in this direction. Vance has been around bonsai forums long enough to know what he's going to get with this sort of post.

Nice trees. Looks like the roots could use some work on most of the conifers. (That's one of the downsides of dealing with nursery material though.)

The trees are not done and more root work is needed as you have pointed out.

As to the tone of the post, it was not so much sardonic, as it was a joke.

 

[Vance Wood]

Very nice crappy trees I must say. I have always wanted to read about your technics on how you start and develop material from 3 gal nursery stock--did you ever write about this? I seem to remember rumors you were going to.

You're right I have been working on something but I am kind of on and off about it for some time. There are so many books about bonsai out there I am not so sure there would be a viable market for one more.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

if you had posted "Decent trees that can be had for 50 dollars" then i would have no problem with it. you went over board by comparing em to 2800 trees thats all. and i would still like to see that 15 dollar tree that someone offered you 2000 for. if only to shut me up

Lets be clear.... Vance never compared them to anything... he simply stated that if a person where to have a budget and access to only nursery stock these are examples of some trees that were created from them....

the tone of the post is a little bit pointed but the intent was good.... I'll take good intentions with a little rough wrapping paper....

I'll be the first person in line to tell you that you will have an easier time making great trees from better material (which often costs a pretty penny) however there is no need to make an attempt degrade Vance because he took the time to show trees that were created from more a different venue....

I do not ever believe I have heard Vance comment that trees created from more expensive material were somehow less appealing .... I do however hear you saying that trees that one did not spend $$$$ on can never be of value.... and that is simply preposterous


Good show Vance !!!

 

[Klytus]

Would your bonsai image grace a themed Pachinko or fruit machine,Pinball?

These criteria could form the basis of design.

Here,http://www.5starslots.com/slots/samurai-master-wms.html

 

[Vance Wood]

if you had posted "Decent trees that can be had for 50 dollars" then i would have no problem with it. you went over board by comparing em to 2800 trees thats all. and i would still like to see that 15 dollar tree that someone offered you 2000 for. if only to shut me up

This is the tree. Photographed 12 years ago, I don't have a current photo and wont till spring. It is a Colorado Blue Spruce dug up from an old Christmas Tree farm. Cost: $14.00 if I dig it myself.

Old photo and not a good photo but here is the tree. PS I still have the tree.

 

[Mystogan]

it must be Angelfire that offered you $2000 for this tree? im just buggin

This is the tree. Photographed 12 years ago, I don't have a current photo and wont till spring. It is a Colorado Blue Spruce dug up from an old Christmas Tree farm. Cost: $14.00 if I dig it myself.

Old photo and not a good photo but here is the tree. PS I still have the tree.

 

[Vance Wood]

Lets be clear.... Vance never compared them to anything... he simply stated that if a person where to have a budget and access to only nursery stock these are examples of some trees that were created from them....

the tone of the post is a little bit pointed but the intent was good.... I'll take good intentions with a little rough wrapping paper....

I'll be the first person in line to tell you that you will have an easier time making great trees from better material (which often costs a pretty penny) however there is no need to make an attempt degrade Vance because he took the time to show trees that were created from more a different venue....

I do not ever believe I have heard Vance comment that trees created from more expensive material were somehow less appealing .... I do however hear you saying that trees that one did not spend $$$$ on can never be of value.... and that is simply preposterous


Good show Vance !!!

Thank you for getting it. You are also correct I have never said making bonsai from expensive and or collected trees was less appealing. In fact I am in favor of them if practicable. Not everyone has access to $2800 to spend on a not yet finished bonsai. There have been those who have suggested that anything else is a wate of time. I wonder how many beginners have found themselves in a position of trying to spend money they didn't have or have given up totally, realizing they cannot get the material necessary to do a good bonsai?

 

[crust]

You're right I have been working on something but I am kind of on and off about it for some time. There are so many books about bonsai out there I am not so sure there would be a viable market for one more.

Ahh I suppose it is true that these days don't offer a viable finacially rewarding market but I am never the less interested in what you have learned over the years specifically the horticultural processes you use shifting root bound garden center stock into progressable bonsai--especially your work with mugos....sigh.

 

[Jason]

Thank you for getting it. You are also correct I have never said making bonsai from expensive and or collected trees was less appealing. In fact I am in favor of them if practicable. Not everyone has access to $2800 to spend on a not yet finished bonsai. There have been those who have suggested that anything else is a wate of time. I wonder how many beginners have found themselves in a position of trying to spend money they didn't have or have given up totally, realizing they cannot get the material necessary to do a good bonsai?

If the point Vance is trying to make, is that you don't have to be able to plunk down huge sums of money in order to practice doing bonsai successfully, it's a valid point. It's people like Vance that gave/give me hope as a beginner. (even though he now thinks the sky is falling ) If the entry point to being "successful" in the art is two grand then some of us would be out. It's not even necessarily the fact that we don't have the cash...it's priorities. I'll never make a living doing Bonsai. Bonsai won't feed my family. Bonsai is not a good investment. I do it as a hobby (an all encompassing one sometimes....but still a hobby).

 

[Brian Underwood]

OOh, I love spruce. Cant wait for the current pictures. Also, I have to strongly disagree with another post. One can purchase just about ANY material for any sum of money and make it better and most likely more valuable over 10 years. This of course takes skill, time and patience, but if it started as a twig and was given the right attention it will end as a bonsai.

 

[Jason]

You don't see too many nice Colorado Blue Spruce bonsai. I hope it holds it's shape better than the spruce i've encountered.

 

[Vance Wood]

You don't see too many nice Colorado Blue Spruce bonsai. I hope it holds it's shape better than the spruce i've encountered.

You have to keep after them and be willing to rewire the damn things almost every year. Eventually they will hold but it takes some time. The wood is very flexible and resilient, the reason it is used for sound boards on musical instruments. Most people don't have the patience to keep up with them.

 

[Mystogan]

15 dollar tree to a decent tree i agree. 15 dollar tree to 2000 dollar tree in less than 10 years----im yet to see one sorry

OOh, I love spruce. Cant wait for the current pictures. Also, I have to strongly disagree with another post. One can purchase just about ANY material for any sum of money and make it better and most likely more valuable over 10 years. This of course takes skill, time and patience, but if it started as a twig and was given the right attention it will end as a bonsai.

 

[Vance Wood]

15 dollar tree to a decent tree i agree. 15 dollar tree to 2000 dollar tree in less than 10 years----im yet to see one sorry

I'm not sure what you are saying here but I don't remember telling anyone that I have had this tree for only 10 years, it's more like twenty. To be dubious about being offered $2000 dollars for this tree is your position to take, but I assure you I was offered that for this tree.

 

[stacy allen muse]

15 dollar tree to a decent tree i agree. 15 dollar tree to 2000 dollar tree in less than 10 years----im yet to see one sorry

Sorry, new and late to this debate...

This whole thread seems to of carried on from a previous one...
I think it's kinda quirky, but a very good debate, none the less.

Let me state that me and Vance probally don't see eye to eye on very much... but this thread I do agree with.
The reason being that sure If one has some God forsaken amout of money to go out and spend on bonsai...
than yes one would expect for them to have their share of nice looking trees.
Doesn't mean they actually know what they are doing... or that they could transform great stock into a top quality tree.
For this takes something that funny enough is one of the few things that money can not buy...
and that is talent...

My opinion of course.
But then again, I am one of "those" type of people who think there is no such thing as bad material...
Some trees just need alot more imagination and work to get there...

Nice trees Vance.
Thanks for posting... those of you who are new to bonsai should keep this in mind when you are scouring Home Depot !!!

 

[Vance Wood]

Sorry, new and late to this debate...

This whole thread seems to of carried on from a previous one...
I think it's kinda quirky, but a very good debate, none the less.

Let me state that me and Vance probally don't see eye to eye on very much... but this thread I do agree with.
The reason being that sure If one has some God forsaken amout of money to go out and spend on bonsai...
than yes one would expect for them to have their share of nice looking trees.
Doesn't mean they actually know what they are doing... or that they could transform great stock into a top quality tree.
For this takes something that funny enough is one of the few things that money can not buy...
and that is talent...

My opinion of course.
But then again, I am one of "those" type of people who think there is no such thing as bad material...
Some trees just need alot more imagination and work to get there...

Nice trees Vance.
Thanks for posting... those of you who are new to bonsai should keep this in mind when you are scouring Home Depot !!!

My opinions of you have sky rocketed, you seem to have the ability to see through the BS and identify the facts. You are right we probably don't agree on politics at all, but that does not mean I hate you or don't grant you respect. So in the future let us agree that we may disagree about some things we should always respect each other. Friendships are made from respect, nothing is made from hate except chaos.

 

[rich415]

Thanks for this thread Vance. Beautiful trees.

Its funny to hear that people believe someone should spen $2000 on material in order to have a "decent" bonsai. Out here in California $2000 will buy a whole lot. One doesn't need to spend more than $500 for material more if you want a really big tree. I always laugh at the material posted on online seller's sites. The amount of money they want for barely suitable material. You could probably drive out here and buy and pay less money.

For most of us its just a hobby.


Rich

 

[Vance Wood]

Thanks for this thread Vance. Beautiful trees.

Its funny to hear that people believe someone should spen $2000 on material in order to have a "decent" bonsai. Out here in California $2000 will buy a whole lot. One doesn't need to spend more than $500 for material more if you want a really big tree. I always laugh at the material posted on online seller's sites. The amount of money they want for barely suitable material. You could probably drive out here and buy and pay less money.

For most of us its just a hobby.


Rich

This is one of the things that drives me crazy. When I started bonsai if you didn't collect the only option you had was the nursery trade or growing from seed. There were no pre-bonsai, there were no bonsai vendors and there were few bonsai books. Today a beginner is privy to a host of options and there are those who will send them off to pre-bonsai land where the prices are high and the quality maybe not so high, thinking that there are no options. Three things can happen. They become successfull and continue, they spend a lot of money and everything dies, or they just don't start to begin with because they can't afford what they are being told is their only oprtion to get started in bonsai. In the end you can just about bet at least 60% to 70% of new bonsai growers will drop by the wayside.