First raw bonsai from garden material

[ECMist]

Looking for some feedback on root pruning from the current situation of this satsuki azalea that I dug up from landscaping in my yard. Wondering if I should cut off all the roots above the trunk base or keep them. In the process of separating the plants, some of the side of the base was ripped and has exposed heart wood. Would it be preferable to plant it shallow so it can heal (but i would have to prune off the top group of roots) or bury it? Ultimately, I would like to have this area exposed, I am just not sure if I should just do it now, or wait a year or so. This is one of my first few bonsai and my first BN post as well, but I have done extensive research on bonsai and azalea in general, but any additional advice or advice would be appreciated!

 

[Shibui]

Check carefully for inverse taper where those upper roots are growing. Extra roots seem to quickly swell a trunk but they also hide it so doesn't show up until after they are all removed. If there's a hint of swelling where those upper roots are I would advise plant deep and chop the lower section off when those upper roots are a bit more advanced.

There's no problem taking off all those extra roots now if that's the final aim and taper is no problem.

 

[ECMist]

Check carefully for inverse taper where those upper roots are growing. Extra roots seem to quickly swell a trunk but they also hide it so doesn't show up until after they are all removed. If there's a hint of swelling where those upper roots are I would advise plant deep and chop the lower section off when those upper roots are a bit more advanced.

There's no problem taking off all those extra roots now if that's the final aim and taper is no problem.

So would taking off all the extra top roots be fine, even if it's being transplanted into new soil for the first time? Just a tad afraid that the tree would become unhappy and die.

 

[PonderingSage:]

I think it’s important to commit to doing the big work initially, otherwise you will just have flaws later on.
I would take those upper roots off unless its the situation shibui described.

 

[BrianBay9]

There's no problem keeping all the roots you have, as long as reverse taper is not a concern as @Shibui notes. The entire goal of the first year after collection is to allow the tree to rebuild roots it lost during collection. Plant it and don't prune, style, move it, etc. Just let it recover. You'll know it's recovering when new growth hardens off and then extends aggressively. Plan on starting work next year.

 

[ECMist]

There's no problem keeping all the roots you have, as long as reverse taper is not a concern as @Shibui notes. The entire goal of the first year after collection is to allow the tree to rebuild roots it lost during collection. Plant it and don't prune, style, move it, etc. Just let it recover. You'll know it's recovering when new growth hardens off and then extends aggressively. Plan on starting work next year.

Ok, that makes sense. Would it be fine to lightly wire some branches? Thank you!

 

[19Mateo83]

Welcome to the nut house!

 

[Shibui]

So would taking off all the extra top roots be fine, even if it's being transplanted into new soil for the first time? Just a tad afraid that the tree would become unhappy and die.

Most of my experience is with Indica azaleas. I have been regularly surprised at how hardy they are. I regularly reduce roots way more than you have and they don't even blink so I would be comfortable with taking off all those high roots now but not sure how satsuki would react.
I know others will not want to be quite so ruthless and that's fine too. Just be aware that the longer those roots are on the trunk the greater the thickening will be at that spot. I can't see much of the upper tree but the trunk looks quite tall so maybe it will be better to encourage those roots like and chop the trunk below the new root system to get a shorter trunk.
If you did that, chances are that the lower section would throw new shoots and give you a second tree to develop.

Would it be fine to lightly wire some branches?

Wiring the branches is OK. The problem is the trunk moving in the soil while you work which might damage any new developing roots.
Personally, I'd defer any wiring and bending until the tree is well established in the new pot which could be just a few months but could also be a year or more.

 

[Dabbler]

Welcome aboard

 

[gooeytek]

Plant it so the higher roots are also in the substrate, and when they've established and time to repot, chop off the lower trunk and see if that takes off too. 2 for 1 !

 

[ECMist]

Most of my experience is with Indica azaleas. I have been regularly surprised at how hardy they are. I regularly reduce roots way more than you have and they don't even blink so I would be comfortable with taking off all those high roots now but not sure how satsuki would react.
I know others will not want to be quite so ruthless and that's fine too. Just be aware that the longer those roots are on the trunk the greater the thickening will be at that spot. I can't see much of the upper tree but the trunk looks quite tall so maybe it will be better to encourage those roots like and chop the trunk below the new root system to get a shorter trunk.
If you did that, chances are that the lower section would throw new shoots and give you a second tree to develop.


Wiring the branches is OK. The problem is the trunk moving in the soil while you work which might damage any new developing roots.
Personally, I'd defer any wiring and bending until the tree is well established in the new pot which could be just a few months but could also be a year or more.

Whoops, chopped off the top roots yesterday. Guess I jumped the gun on that one and should've waited a bit.

 

[Shibui]

Whoops, chopped off the top roots yesterday.

No real problem. Just reduces some options and opens up others.
Have those upper roots thickened the trunk to any noticeable degree?

Good news is that even older azalea trunks can be chopped and expect lots of new shoots on the bare trunk so reducing the height is still possible though it will take a few years to develop decent branches from the stump.
Layering is also easy. You've seen the tree can even do it without our help. If the top section looks good enough you could air layer first to get a second tree from this one.

Give it a year or so to recover from the initial transplant before trying any of these ideas. Doing too much too soon can kill plants.

 

[ECMist]

No real problem. Just reduces some options and opens up others.
Have those upper roots thickened the trunk to any noticeable degree?

Good news is that even older azalea trunks can be chopped and expect lots of new shoots on the bare trunk so reducing the height is still possible though it will take a few years to develop decent branches from the stump.
Layering is also easy. You've seen the tree can even do it without our help. If the top section looks good enough you could air layer first to get a second tree from this one.

Give it a year or so to recover from the initial transplant before trying any of these ideas. Doing too much too soon can kill plants.

Nothing noticeable… but it has this weird bulge/scar on the side. Should I saw it off? Also, I’ve never tried air layering, but is it necessary or worth it to propagate another tree? Thanks so much for your input!!

 

[Shibui]

Nothing noticeable… but it has this weird bulge/scar on the side. Should I saw it off?

Is that where the upper roots were? Maybe an old branch site?
Whatever it appears to be inverse taper which never looks good on trees and even worse on bonsai. Sometimes we don't get a choice and just have to live with or work to reduce/ disguise inverse taper.

On a trident or another fast growing easily healed species I might be tempted to chop that bulge but azalea don't heal as well. The dead parts in the bulge will make it even more difficult to heal over if you chop.
In any case you don't want to inflict further trauma on a newly transplanted tree so just let this one recover for at least 12 months. By all means plan but hands off. Care and attention only for a full year. Haste frequently cases demise in the bonsai world.

Also, I’ve never tried air layering, but is it necessary or worth it to propagate another tree?

Many newer growers encourage layering simply because it seems to be a good idea to make 2 trees from 1. My experience is that it delays development work by around 12 months so only worth while where there are insurmountable problems with the trunk or the species is rare or special. In most cases we can purchase replacement stock quicker and easier than layering.
Whether or not to layer then comes down to:
Are there insurmountable problems with the existing trunk that layering would remove reasonably easily?
Do you really need a second tree of this species?
Is the top part good enough to spend the time and effort or could you buy another of equal value cheap?

The answers will vary from place to place, from person to person and depend on the species and it's quality. Only you can answer the question.

 

[leatherback]

Many newer growers encourage layering simply because it seems to be a good idea to make 2 trees from 1. My experience is that it delays development work by around 12 months so only worth while where there are insurmountable problems with the trunk or the species is rare or special.

Agreed. Just, If I may, I could add one more reason do airlayer, certainly for new growers: To learn how it works, and know whether specific species / varieties respond well to layering. Just as a practice round so once you REALLY need it to work, you can better judge how/what/when.

 

[ECMist]

Is that where the upper roots were? Maybe an old branch site?
Whatever it appears to be inverse taper which never looks good on trees and even worse on bonsai. Sometimes we don't get a choice and just have to live with or work to reduce/ disguise inverse taper.

On a trident or another fast growing easily healed species I might be tempted to chop that bulge but azalea don't heal as well. The dead parts in the bulge will make it even more difficult to heal over if you chop.
In any case you don't want to inflict further trauma on a newly transplanted tree so just let this one recover for at least 12 months. By all means plan but hands off. Care and attention only for a full year. Haste frequently cases demise in the bonsai world.

Many newer growers encourage layering simply because it seems to be a good idea to make 2 trees from 1. My experience is that it delays development work by around 12 months so only worth while where there are insurmountable problems with the trunk or the species is rare or special. In most cases we can purchase replacement stock quicker and easier than layering.
Whether or not to layer then comes down to:
Are there insurmountable problems with the existing trunk that layering would remove reasonably easily?
Do you really need a second tree of this species?
Is the top part good enough to spend the time and effort or could you buy another of equal value cheap?

The answers will vary from place to place, from person to person and depend on the species and it's quality. Only you can answer the question.

Ah, I see. Don’t think I’ll try air layering on this tree, but will definitely consider it when I get other trees. I’ll leave the tree alone for a while. Thank you so much!

 

[Paradox]

Looking at these pictures and specifically the leaves, this is not a satsuki, but probably a karume or possibly a Korean azalea.

These are still beautiful azalea and can make very nice bonsai

 

[ECMist]

Looking at these pictures and specifically the leaves, this is not a satsuki, but probably a karume or possibly a Korean azalea.

These are still beautiful azalea and can make very nice bonsai

That may be totally true, a plant identifier app that told me it was a Satsuki