cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
How they doing?
Extended season starting trees indoors
- Thread starter cmeg1
- Start date
JeffS73
Shohin
Hi Vin, sry I missed this. The root riot cubes got going quicker, both powder and gel worked well. They're also easier to remove from the roots. The grodan ones were a bit slower, but also did well. The root riot were more prone to fungus gnats, so if they're a problem for you, use grodan.
I get my cubes from greenspirit hydroponics, because they're close to me and give me a discount! Any hydro shop will stock them, I don't think the grodan brand is that important, all the mineral ones look the same.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Ok so, Siberian Elm Raft bonsai starters…..INDOORS!!!!!
These will be cool.I was so excited to get the room rearranged and the resevoir outside of the tent in a more favorable and cooler air.Just will do these like I do my outdoor setup and dunk the flats into the water tray.
This way I can fit sooomuch more in the tents,using all 3 tents and using all available space inside the tents…..will be a big Winter grow.
These Raft starters will be cool growing in the co2 fertilization for the next 6 mnths!!!!! And will get some nice girth going into next season as I let the leaders grow on big time.
I will be able to get many rooting bends into the stonewool …at least 4 or so.
These are also getting PURE UV suppliment lighting ……..on for 10 min once an hour with the inside 10 hrs of the light cycle……seems Elms love this and get the nice anthocynins going in the leaves and thicker leaves.
I will add about 10 per day into the tent as I make them from the seedlings outside.
Have the tent dialed in nicely for now!
I gotta’ laugh at thes Siberian Elm…….like 90% germination ,no pre tretment whatsoever……just plant seeds and they grow…
These will be cool.I was so excited to get the room rearranged and the resevoir outside of the tent in a more favorable and cooler air.Just will do these like I do my outdoor setup and dunk the flats into the water tray.
This way I can fit sooomuch more in the tents,using all 3 tents and using all available space inside the tents…..will be a big Winter grow.
These Raft starters will be cool growing in the co2 fertilization for the next 6 mnths!!!!! And will get some nice girth going into next season as I let the leaders grow on big time.
I will be able to get many rooting bends into the stonewool …at least 4 or so.
These are also getting PURE UV suppliment lighting ……..on for 10 min once an hour with the inside 10 hrs of the light cycle……seems Elms love this and get the nice anthocynins going in the leaves and thicker leaves.
I will add about 10 per day into the tent as I make them from the seedlings outside.
Have the tent dialed in nicely for now!
I gotta’ laugh at thes Siberian Elm…….like 90% germination ,no pre tretment whatsoever……just plant seeds and they grow…
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cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
ZELKOVA BROOM IDEAS———indoors!!!
So,I am revisiting an old zelkova boom method.I had stretched these out considerably( though are ways to stretch even more) just befor they branch and then use a broom starter method noted in an old Bonsai Today article.
I realized today that these could potentially be VERY good broom starters since all the controle indoors.
So a bunch of these for sale in Spring…hopefully.
Have very,very cool ideas coming up with these!!!!!!
Layering….short internodes and super strong by Spring
So,I am revisiting an old zelkova boom method.I had stretched these out considerably( though are ways to stretch even more) just befor they branch and then use a broom starter method noted in an old Bonsai Today article.
I realized today that these could potentially be VERY good broom starters since all the controle indoors.
So a bunch of these for sale in Spring…hopefully.
Have very,very cool ideas coming up with these!!!!!!
Layering….short internodes and super strong by Spring
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Zelkova Broom——cont.
Ok so,here is a hint of what I plan to make…except this seasons batch will be of a higher quality in my opinion,albeit smaller,but of a more marked quality.THIS IS A PLAN
The young Zelkovas can root by girdeling/ringbark incredibly fast……I have had some finished in 9 days!
Also the internodes I have been getting as of late are phoenominal in the controled evvironment tents.Like back budding on 1” branches.Only a matter of time before I give the Brooms another go…….it has been around 6 years? since first attempt.
I will grow these in similiar fashion except with the basic slingshot method from seed……..then will proceed to make a girdle/seedling air-layer with a cut in half mini block of stonewool….nice and shallow rooting!
The Stonewool is such a stable media(actually basalt rock spun into the fluffy product) it is stone nontheless and does not degrade.
Could literally grow a plant in a shallow slab of the stuff for quite a long time……
Anyways these will be vigorous and stocky with dense internodes and will be ready to defoliate.
THE BONSAI/AKADAMA POTTED PICS BELOW ARE REPRESENTATION ONLY FROM MANY YEARS AGO ATTEMPT.
Ok so,here is a hint of what I plan to make…except this seasons batch will be of a higher quality in my opinion,albeit smaller,but of a more marked quality.THIS IS A PLAN
The young Zelkovas can root by girdeling/ringbark incredibly fast……I have had some finished in 9 days!
Also the internodes I have been getting as of late are phoenominal in the controled evvironment tents.Like back budding on 1” branches.Only a matter of time before I give the Brooms another go…….it has been around 6 years? since first attempt.
I will grow these in similiar fashion except with the basic slingshot method from seed……..then will proceed to make a girdle/seedling air-layer with a cut in half mini block of stonewool….nice and shallow rooting!
The Stonewool is such a stable media(actually basalt rock spun into the fluffy product) it is stone nontheless and does not degrade.
Could literally grow a plant in a shallow slab of the stuff for quite a long time……
Anyways these will be vigorous and stocky with dense internodes and will be ready to defoliate.
THE BONSAI/AKADAMA POTTED PICS BELOW ARE REPRESENTATION ONLY FROM MANY YEARS AGO ATTEMPT.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Siberian Elm Broom Style Starters
So,I was ready to make a flat of the Raft starters when I noticed upon a couple seedlings that were topped for one reason or another and actually seemed they would make nice Broom style…similiar to Zelkova.These will be fun as they can be made much more taller……..will have fun with this.
So,I was ready to make a flat of the Raft starters when I noticed upon a couple seedlings that were topped for one reason or another and actually seemed they would make nice Broom style…similiar to Zelkova.These will be fun as they can be made much more taller……..will have fun with this.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
THE GROW ROOM AS OF LATE
Getting more efficient production wise as the seasons go by.I believe my third season with this?
IMPROVEMENTS:
——The most noticeable is keeping the Ebb&Flow resevoir outside of the warm tent and in the constant 64-70f room temperature!!!!!
The water is a nice and bubbley,clean and clear 68f when I prepare to flood the tray……..absolutely full of dissolved O2 from the cool water and a bubbler on constantly.
I also have a circulater pump on 1/2 hr & off 1/2 hr at all times.The mineral ion and organic bio-stimulants always in suspension from the aggetation and the addition of yucca powder as a surfectant.
——The other VERY BIGTIME IMPROVEMENT is the regualr use of stonewool suspended on their Smart Tray Inserts.NO MORE STANDING WATER IN FLOOD PAN THAT ALWAYS NEEDS SHOP-VAC.
I used to sooooooo despise seeing standing water with green algea in the bottom of my tents…….while it was mainly harmless being I kept pots elevated.It was close to roots nontheless and I was concerned my tents would leak and also was very loud early in the morning to shop-vac and have it fill then carry it outside to empty and then shop-vac it up again……..have we heard enough?
New guy stuff……totally.
Grodan is the bomb!
I freakin’ love this even more now…….no standing water
The room is maintaining environmental conditions quite nicely.
——Perfect amount of all blue spectrum supplimental lighting.
While all my lights are veg lights with more blue I also add about 50-85 ppfd extra…..any more and you get super dwarf trees…relatively unneccesary.
The blue veg option is absolutely fantastic to keep growth stocky and more photosynthesizing too…….along with thicker cellmembranes and waxy covering on the leaves.
Coupled with kelp foliar feeding it is the real secret to getting all thes starters to branch out profusely and make extreme backbudding.
Zelkova brooms will love this.
I was already getting backbudding on 1” shoots.Super stoked to apply this to the mini brooms you see in the pictures.
So there you go…….
Getting more efficient production wise as the seasons go by.I believe my third season with this?
IMPROVEMENTS:
——The most noticeable is keeping the Ebb&Flow resevoir outside of the warm tent and in the constant 64-70f room temperature!!!!!
The water is a nice and bubbley,clean and clear 68f when I prepare to flood the tray……..absolutely full of dissolved O2 from the cool water and a bubbler on constantly.
I also have a circulater pump on 1/2 hr & off 1/2 hr at all times.The mineral ion and organic bio-stimulants always in suspension from the aggetation and the addition of yucca powder as a surfectant.
——The other VERY BIGTIME IMPROVEMENT is the regualr use of stonewool suspended on their Smart Tray Inserts.NO MORE STANDING WATER IN FLOOD PAN THAT ALWAYS NEEDS SHOP-VAC.
I used to sooooooo despise seeing standing water with green algea in the bottom of my tents…….while it was mainly harmless being I kept pots elevated.It was close to roots nontheless and I was concerned my tents would leak and also was very loud early in the morning to shop-vac and have it fill then carry it outside to empty and then shop-vac it up again……..have we heard enough?
New guy stuff……totally.
Grodan is the bomb!
I freakin’ love this even more now…….no standing water
The room is maintaining environmental conditions quite nicely.
——Perfect amount of all blue spectrum supplimental lighting.
While all my lights are veg lights with more blue I also add about 50-85 ppfd extra…..any more and you get super dwarf trees…relatively unneccesary.
The blue veg option is absolutely fantastic to keep growth stocky and more photosynthesizing too…….along with thicker cellmembranes and waxy covering on the leaves.
Coupled with kelp foliar feeding it is the real secret to getting all thes starters to branch out profusely and make extreme backbudding.
Zelkova brooms will love this.
I was already getting backbudding on 1” shoots.Super stoked to apply this to the mini brooms you see in the pictures.
So there you go…….
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
SIBERIAN ELM RAFT STYLE STARTERS UPDATE!!!
Ok,I am even more enthused than I was.The motherplant fertilizer makes for some speedy rooting.I just scrape a little bit of cambium and put the talc and gel hormone mixture and they root VERY quickly @ 7 days!!! Will be some nice “rooted at every bend” Raft Style Bonsai starters.
So I will make some more of these right away.
Here they are @ 9 day mark!!!
These Siberian Elms seem to get some anthocyans going hence the purple and red colors when I put them into the co2 fertilization……..hopefully all is well.
I am making Brooms out of many of them.
Ok,I am even more enthused than I was.The motherplant fertilizer makes for some speedy rooting.I just scrape a little bit of cambium and put the talc and gel hormone mixture and they root VERY quickly @ 7 days!!! Will be some nice “rooted at every bend” Raft Style Bonsai starters.
So I will make some more of these right away.
Here they are @ 9 day mark!!!
These Siberian Elms seem to get some anthocyans going hence the purple and red colors when I put them into the co2 fertilization……..hopefully all is well.
I am making Brooms out of many of them.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Zelkova & Siberian Elm Broom Style Starters
All is going as planned,and quite quickly.The Zelkova are backbudding nicey all the way from first tiny leaf on only 1” branches.The Siberian Elm ,even moreso it seems!
The Siberian Elm are prepared differently being they do not normally sprout into a natural -V- shape,so these I just top off the leader and remove bottom growth eventually.They are quite straight from the getgo which is quite nice,as the Zelkova will need a little wire to get perfectly straight.
At any rate,they are a great color and look to be thick and healthy leaves,especially the new growth indoors being co2 fertilized and blue enhanced and supplimental lighting.
These will get air-layered very early on and should root in a matter of days and have attractive nebari.
I included a very old picture of how I wrap at Autumn stage for an idea……thin wire is much better than ziptie’s lol( was very new at time of photo to growing these).
Here is instructions to make them that I pasted below:
—————————————-
First year technique
-Sprout from seed in complete shade so they grow leggy and have unusually long trunks,deep shade.
-When first two true leaves stabilize,transplant to a grow pot and put in sun/part-sun.
-When they split in the -V- shape,which occurs naturally,let each side grow to 5-7 leaves,then cut back to 4 leaves.(each stem).
-If one side of the -V- is weaker,it don't matter,just start trimming the other side(as explained below) while the weak side catches up to 5-7 leaves.
-After you cut back to 4 leaves,cut the top-most 4th leaf leaving 1/3 of the leaf,cut the 3rd leaf leaving 1/2 of the leaf,cut the 2nd leaf leaving 2/3 of the leaf ,and leave the bottom leaf whole.(each stem)
-Remove 1 of any opposed leaves pointing at each other and clashing from different stems.
-Repeat this process of cutting and restraining leaves all season(just keep repeating these steps).They keep sprouting.
-In winter,tie up the branches with the ribbon and cut off to appropriate height(the trunk should be 1/3 of eventual tree height).
-Done.
This whole technique is to be done in first season only.
———————————————————
These will be awesome starters for Broom style!!!!!
All is going as planned,and quite quickly.The Zelkova are backbudding nicey all the way from first tiny leaf on only 1” branches.The Siberian Elm ,even moreso it seems!
The Siberian Elm are prepared differently being they do not normally sprout into a natural -V- shape,so these I just top off the leader and remove bottom growth eventually.They are quite straight from the getgo which is quite nice,as the Zelkova will need a little wire to get perfectly straight.
At any rate,they are a great color and look to be thick and healthy leaves,especially the new growth indoors being co2 fertilized and blue enhanced and supplimental lighting.
These will get air-layered very early on and should root in a matter of days and have attractive nebari.
I included a very old picture of how I wrap at Autumn stage for an idea……thin wire is much better than ziptie’s lol( was very new at time of photo to growing these).
Here is instructions to make them that I pasted below:
—————————————-
First year technique
-Sprout from seed in complete shade so they grow leggy and have unusually long trunks,deep shade.
-When first two true leaves stabilize,transplant to a grow pot and put in sun/part-sun.
-When they split in the -V- shape,which occurs naturally,let each side grow to 5-7 leaves,then cut back to 4 leaves.(each stem).
-If one side of the -V- is weaker,it don't matter,just start trimming the other side(as explained below) while the weak side catches up to 5-7 leaves.
-After you cut back to 4 leaves,cut the top-most 4th leaf leaving 1/3 of the leaf,cut the 3rd leaf leaving 1/2 of the leaf,cut the 2nd leaf leaving 2/3 of the leaf ,and leave the bottom leaf whole.(each stem)
-Remove 1 of any opposed leaves pointing at each other and clashing from different stems.
-Repeat this process of cutting and restraining leaves all season(just keep repeating these steps).They keep sprouting.
-In winter,tie up the branches with the ribbon and cut off to appropriate height(the trunk should be 1/3 of eventual tree height).
-Done.
This whole technique is to be done in first season only.
———————————————————
These will be awesome starters for Broom style!!!!!
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
STRAIGHTENED SOME ZELKOVA BROOM STARTERS
These should be awesome.I straightened about 40…..was enjoyable work….about 3 hrs.I have over 200!!! The ones that started making axillary shoots got the beginning treatments.These are fantastic….perfect budding.Zelkova are naturals for an indoor co2 fertilized hydro grow.
These will be ringbarked at the base when they are full and branched.It will not be long as these were just brough indoors about 2 weeks ago as the first true leaves were settling in 8/27/21 outdoors………extremely fast development and super tight internodes….I will probably be suprised at the trunk girth and hopefully a nice flared base when these are girdled at their bases( red line in picture).
I will then pluck the leaves,wrap up the branches and store in tree cooler at 36 f till Spring so the branches get firm and all pointed up.
View attachment 397966
These should be awesome.I straightened about 40…..was enjoyable work….about 3 hrs.I have over 200!!! The ones that started making axillary shoots got the beginning treatments.These are fantastic….perfect budding.Zelkova are naturals for an indoor co2 fertilized hydro grow.
These will be ringbarked at the base when they are full and branched.It will not be long as these were just brough indoors about 2 weeks ago as the first true leaves were settling in 8/27/21 outdoors………extremely fast development and super tight internodes….I will probably be suprised at the trunk girth and hopefully a nice flared base when these are girdled at their bases( red line in picture).
I will then pluck the leaves,wrap up the branches and store in tree cooler at 36 f till Spring so the branches get firm and all pointed up.
View attachment 397966
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
The very cool Zelkova’s. Broom style/multi-trunk/clump bonsai styles!!!
So,in only a week these are practically set in their shapes.Whatever does not fit the bill for natural Broom style Zelkova will be used for the multi-trunk/clump bonsai styles.
Some just grow into these rather instant tree forms which I find quite funny( last picture).
The clump style starters will be air-layered just below the unique branching later this indoor growing season along with the proper Broom forms(as seen with red lines).
These Zelkova are quite the naturals for co2 fertilized indoor growth.
My plan is to keep forcing branches and clipping the leaves in a very stunted manner and just keep wrapping up in twine or light wire every so often with the leaves attached to the tree….they set in a week so no big deal really.And also catch them befor they are too lignified( can happen very quickly in co2 environment).
If leaves are damaged I will just defoliate which I can do very early anyways.A few rounds of this can set the stage to actually halt any major growth and let them gain much needed energy and brix to guarantee successful air-layering.
Not really sure of the size of these in 6-7 mnths from now,but I believe they will be impressive.
I may get them to a nice refind starter stage and just halt the growth for a few months before sale in Spring…….will be extremely energetic that way and they actually will gain trunk girth too and roots will harden and grow from the increased photosynthesis.
Large trees are very annoying to ship for me really lol
I will have more Broom style than Clump style…….but quite a lot nontheless…..If these are good I will make another batch right away in Spring……..having several hundred a season!!!
Will have over 200 by Spring sale season!!!
Clumps are air-layered high( for identification).
Many months to grow these…..exciting process.
So,in only a week these are practically set in their shapes.Whatever does not fit the bill for natural Broom style Zelkova will be used for the multi-trunk/clump bonsai styles.
Some just grow into these rather instant tree forms which I find quite funny( last picture).
The clump style starters will be air-layered just below the unique branching later this indoor growing season along with the proper Broom forms(as seen with red lines).
These Zelkova are quite the naturals for co2 fertilized indoor growth.
My plan is to keep forcing branches and clipping the leaves in a very stunted manner and just keep wrapping up in twine or light wire every so often with the leaves attached to the tree….they set in a week so no big deal really.And also catch them befor they are too lignified( can happen very quickly in co2 environment).
If leaves are damaged I will just defoliate which I can do very early anyways.A few rounds of this can set the stage to actually halt any major growth and let them gain much needed energy and brix to guarantee successful air-layering.
Not really sure of the size of these in 6-7 mnths from now,but I believe they will be impressive.
I may get them to a nice refind starter stage and just halt the growth for a few months before sale in Spring…….will be extremely energetic that way and they actually will gain trunk girth too and roots will harden and grow from the increased photosynthesis.
Large trees are very annoying to ship for me really lol
I will have more Broom style than Clump style…….but quite a lot nontheless…..If these are good I will make another batch right away in Spring……..having several hundred a season!!!
Will have over 200 by Spring sale season!!!
Clumps are air-layered high( for identification).
Many months to grow these…..exciting process.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
so have been wrapping these up before they get thick.
Honestly is best now as they are very green wood.Seems the co2 fertilization makes these lignify in about a week.I believe the leaves will survive the process for the most part.
The plan is to do this quite frequently so they stay upright and bushey in their crowns.
These are growing somewhat slowly,but that is fine as I have a whole six mnths to go!!!
Honestly is best now as they are very green wood.Seems the co2 fertilization makes these lignify in about a week.I believe the leaves will survive the process for the most part.
The plan is to do this quite frequently so they stay upright and bushey in their crowns.
These are growing somewhat slowly,but that is fine as I have a whole six mnths to go!!!
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
More American Hornbeam
Came across a very healthy and fine stand of American Hornbeam,so could not resist grabbing a ton of seeds.The fluted bark was quite nice on many of them.
I will have to soak a few minutes in sulfuric acid to clean all these before stratification,but at least is fresh seed and local.
Came across a very healthy and fine stand of American Hornbeam,so could not resist grabbing a ton of seeds.The fluted bark was quite nice on many of them.
I will have to soak a few minutes in sulfuric acid to clean all these before stratification,but at least is fresh seed and local.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Zelkova’s after 5 days of being wrapped up leaves and all!!!
I am satisfied with this method.They grow so vigorously in the co2 that they lignify in days and fully set shape.
Others still need trimming and wrapping,but these all get done eventually.Over and over and over all Autumn and Winter long.
They are only 7 weeks old now from seed.
I am satisfied with this method.They grow so vigorously in the co2 that they lignify in days and fully set shape.
Others still need trimming and wrapping,but these all get done eventually.Over and over and over all Autumn and Winter long.
They are only 7 weeks old now from seed.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
SOME OF THE ZELKOVA ARE GETTING RATHER PRONOUNCED GIRTH IN THE STEMS.
Another 6 mnths and these will surely be almost an inch round…..I’m sure of it!!!
I want growth to be maneagable,but the trunk will surely thicken even so.This one is approaching 1/4” already on such a tiny plant.
Another 6 mnths and these will surely be almost an inch round…..I’m sure of it!!!
I want growth to be maneagable,but the trunk will surely thicken even so.This one is approaching 1/4” already on such a tiny plant.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Letting them rest is beneficial…….and very cool!
These Zelkova do extremely well indoors in this hydro settup.They never cease to amaze me!
They will get to a certain stage usually just after trimming leaves…practically a defoliation with this method.Then will push a few nodes and kind of halt a bit,unless you give slightly stronger light and perhaps a tad more NPK.
It is very cool at this stage.They relatively gain lots of energy…..for such tiny plants and is extremely beneficial.Although the wood hardens very fast in the co2 and I have to get them wrapped quite soon.
I will experiment with leaving wrapped a bit longer like 10-14 days since not much growing extension going on.
Some are getting bushier as they are a bit further along…..I will see what to do…..I guess just wrap up tight again….longer as mentioned above,so they keep shape.And then in Autumn could be done again……perhaps.
I think I can add an extra inch of trunk height also as roots do not come off thess till’ well below the surface of the cube.And I will ringbark them all later on for seriously nice roots.
Lots of growing time for these.
I will let them rest more often so all the backbuds pop clear to the base of shoots and be very healthy and strong little Brooms!
Plenty of time……….
In perfection these could be little 1” trunk mini monster Brooms by April 2022!!!
Lets hope so.
These Zelkova do extremely well indoors in this hydro settup.They never cease to amaze me!
They will get to a certain stage usually just after trimming leaves…practically a defoliation with this method.Then will push a few nodes and kind of halt a bit,unless you give slightly stronger light and perhaps a tad more NPK.
It is very cool at this stage.They relatively gain lots of energy…..for such tiny plants and is extremely beneficial.Although the wood hardens very fast in the co2 and I have to get them wrapped quite soon.
I will experiment with leaving wrapped a bit longer like 10-14 days since not much growing extension going on.
Some are getting bushier as they are a bit further along…..I will see what to do…..I guess just wrap up tight again….longer as mentioned above,so they keep shape.And then in Autumn could be done again……perhaps.
I think I can add an extra inch of trunk height also as roots do not come off thess till’ well below the surface of the cube.And I will ringbark them all later on for seriously nice roots.
Lots of growing time for these.
I will let them rest more often so all the backbuds pop clear to the base of shoots and be very healthy and strong little Brooms!
Plenty of time……….
In perfection these could be little 1” trunk mini monster Brooms by April 2022!!!
Lets hope so.
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cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
These were at 1” trunk EASILY in 6 mnths on a previous crop of non-broom zelkova.
There was no real sacrifice growth either!
The Dutch Hydro really grows these
Soooooooo stoked for this crop of Broom zelkova….:……….really fun stuff.
There was no real sacrifice growth either!
The Dutch Hydro really grows these
Soooooooo stoked for this crop of Broom zelkova….:……….really fun stuff.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Shaping more and more!
Every morning.
Every morning.
BrightsideB
Omono
What is the reason to wrap the leaves in wire like that?
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