Deciduous yamadori in the US

[Nybonsai12]

Don't let anyone tear you down, keep doing what you like @Andrew Thomas
i for one appreciate your enthusiasm, can see your desire for bonsai and hope more young people pursue it as aggressively as you.

 

[Andrew Robson]

That is total BS...Open your eyes and quit being a parrot...if I bothered to show you some pics, I am quite sure you could accurately differentiate between trees from the US and Japan...so statements like that only reveal your inability to have your own thoughts.

If you are lucky, someday you will realize that anyone can be a parrot...it only requires internet access. if you want to add something to bonsai, which it is obvious that you desperately do, do something on your own, be original, be creative(how many times do I have to say it?)...or just keep building your internet master status..you are well on your way...maybe you and sorce can form a club??

I'm not being a parrot, just a student. If you think that I only have internet access to back up my knowledge, you're wrong. I've been doing bonsai with my father (president of the Bonsai Society of St. Louis) since 2008. I've studied on and off with Mike Hagedorn since 2010, worked at Dave Kreutz's nursery for 3 summers, and recently joined a study group here in Connecticut with Boon. That being said, I feel like I still don't know a lot, which is why I consider myself a student. I've never said I was a master, and never will.

The reason why I post links when I comment is because I want to provide a source (from someone extremely reputable) to back up my information. I would never suggest something that I haven't done or wouldn't do myself.

I openly acknowledge that I'm currently a parrot in my level of bonsai training, and proud to be one at the moment. The best students in any medium copy their teacher for many years. An apprentice in Japan calls his teacher "Oyakata", which translates to lord and master. Apprentices in any art do exactly what their teacher does. At first they might not fully understand why, but eventually they do. Only when one can truly copy and mimic their teacher can they begin to pave their own path. I'm currently in the student-copying phase of my bonsai journey. Next year I'm planning to pursue bonsai on a very intense level, where I'll be copying a teacher almost every day to learn exactly what he does, but more on that in a couple months.

I don't know what I did to upset you so much John, but I hope we can one day be friendly toward each other. I have nothing against you, and I'm sorry to hear that you and others are so offended by me and my posts.

 

[Andrew Robson]

Well, yeah, he was trained by a Japanese master. That is where his strengths are and how he was taught. Neither here nor there as to suitability of collected U.S. natives.

I may be wrong, but I don't think he's limited himself to Japanese species.

What I meant was people should be growing American natives like Bill grew his impressive Japanese maples. I'm starting to play with 20 red maple and a few vine maple seedlings this spring.

 

[A Random User]

Don't let anyone tear you down, keep doing what you like @Andrew Thomas
i for one appreciate your enthusiasm, can see your desire for bonsai and hope more young people pursue it as aggressively as you.

Saying one is trying to tear Andrew down... is just silly!
There is no one here who does not appreciate Andrew's or anyone else's enthusiasm.
I think that John and his comments as well as mine and some of the others were actually being quite honest and sincere.
If one didn't like Andrew, none of us would bother wasting their time to comment, and to tell him we want to hear what he has to say...
Not what every other person on the internet says... with him just repeating it, as if it was his own.

 

[Andrew Robson]

as if it was his own.

I always cite my sources, I wish more people here did.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

This is turning into a cat fight......
Let us then concede to agree to disagree and see that bonsai is an art form and not a monopoly. If you feel so strongly please start a Japanese Bonsai Only thread, as most people here use a mix of techniques they most likely will not agree with a purist view. No one is trying to put down anyone, it is a free dialogue and conversation. Peace out everyone.

Well said Sawgrass.
Andrew Thomas all respect to the art form you practice.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Back to native trees. Anyone know how to decrease leaf size on Daimyo Oak?

 

[sorce]

I don't know why that feller is winking at you.....but....
@Andrew Thomas I (also) don't know why people wanna open their mouth on you so much.....maybe it's the flute....I think you should borrow @Nwaite old avatar photo.....the middle finger one!
You put a lot of excellent information on here for people to use. And yes....you do always state your sources. I call it selective reading disorder.....also known as .....people are Fucking stupid, till they get called stupid.....they NEVER miss that!
You do preach your "teachings" pretty strong......but there is never any information in it that will kill someone's tree.....if people can't use it for what it's worth.......well.....back to the stupid bin.
If we had a hundred more you's.....this forum would still ONLY BE BETTER IF PEOPLE DIDN'T ACT LIKE THEY WEAR SMOKES THONGS ON THEIR FACE ALL DAY TO SNIFF THE...."OIL".

We shouldn't have to "have discussions" about having discussions about trees like Markyscott and JohnG went through.

We should be able to have the discussion.

The Paris Thread went how long? About some really serious stuff....and nary a harsh word.

But we can't talk about TREES?

That's what we are here for yes?
Well.......

Sorce

 

[johng]

I'm not being a parrot, just a student. If you think that I only have internet access to back up my knowledge, you're wrong. I've been doing bonsai with my father (president of the Bonsai Society of St. Louis) since 2008. I've studied on and off with Mike Hagedorn since 2010, worked at Dave Kreutz's nursery for 3 summers, and recently joined a study group here in Connecticut with Boon. That being said, I feel like I still don't know a lot, which is why I consider myself a student. I've never said I was a master, and never will.

The reason why I post links when I comment is because I want to provide a source (from someone extremely reputable) to back up my information. I would never suggest something that I haven't done or wouldn't do myself.

I openly acknowledge that I'm currently a parrot in my level of bonsai training, and proud to be one at the moment. The best students in any medium copy their teacher for many years. An apprentice in Japan calls his teacher "Oyakata", which translates to lord and master. Apprentices in any art do exactly what their teacher does. At first they might not fully understand why, but eventually they do. Only when one can truly copy and mimic their teacher can they begin to pave their own path. I'm currently in the student-copying phase of my bonsai journey. Next year I'm planning to pursue bonsai on a very intense level, where I'll be copying a teacher almost every day to learn exactly what he does, but more on that in a couple months.

I don't know what I did to upset you so much John, but I hope we can one day be friendly toward each other. I have nothing against you, and I'm sorry to hear that you and others are so offended by me and my posts.

Andrew... I don't dislike you...quite the contrary as Sawgrass suggests...we need passion like yours in bonsai... I damn sure wouldn't waste my time posting to you if I didn't see your potential...

However, it really seems like you are missing/ignoring the point...

Several times now I have asked you to be original...to share YOUR experiences, successes, failures, etc... to add to the collective knowledge...

Instead...

you seem to think we have all been living in a hole. That we don't read, that we all need to be professionals in the world of bonsai, that its cool to be a name dropping, spoiled brat...and I strongly suspect that the truth is you don't even care for trees on a daily basis...do you???

Its kind of like this buddy....you can read 1000 books or blog posts or whatever on how to ride a bike...but you still can't actually ride a bike until you get on one and ride it.... your posts, always referring to someone else's work, techniques, experience etc..., make you come across as a reader and not a doer... (my definition of an Internet Bonsai Master)

It is just like your Bonsai Herald site...why would anyone bother to go to a source that has no original content and only regurgitates what others have already posted elsewhere???? Let me let you in on a little secret...we all read those blogs already. So who exactly is your perceived audience?? See any parallels to what you post here??

I understand you are an accomplished musician...that is very admirable...I am sure you have 1000's of hours behind you in practice. The people you respect in the world of music..Do they only play/reference/talk about other people's music or do they ever create/write/perform their own music??? I think there is a parallel to doing bonsai...those who do earn respect, those who only copy others...not so much. I think your teacher is a perfect example of this...

All I have tried to convey to you is that you need to be a doer...then folks might be willing to take your advice and offer you some respect. Respect is earned by what you do, not by who you parrot or what you own, or who you know!

 

[JudyB]

Only when one can truly copy and mimic their teacher can they begin to pave their own path.

I beg to differ with this statement. It is flawed at the core of what it's saying, and can and does hold people back from being of their own expression.

 

[mattspinniken]

It is just like your Bonsai Herald site...why would anyone bother to go to a source that has no original content and only regurgitates what others have already posted elsewhere???? Let me let you in on a little secret...we all read those blogs already. So who exactly is your perceived audience??

I see the point John is making, but I just had to throw in that I like the Bonsai Herald. It is nice to have everything in one place, and to me is a worthwhile idea that saves time from checking all the blogs one by one. So... Keep it up Andrew.

 

[johng]

I see the point John is making, but I just had to throw in that I like the Bonsai Herald. It is nice to have everything in one place, and to me is a worthwhile idea that saves time from checking all the blogs one by one. So... Keep it up Andrew.

Ever heard of a blog reader? Try Feedly...all the blog content you want in one place, even auto translates for you so your not stuck with just English lang blogs...and you get to decide the bias.

 

[Adair M]

JohnG,

Andrew is a classical musician. Many classical musicians don't write music, just perform. Oh, I'm sure they had to do some composition in their studies, but their focus is on performance. Performance of others "creation" of music. Now, each performer brings something personal into each performance they make.

Two performers can "interpret" a Mozart concerto entirely differently. Yes, they play the same notes. In the same rhythm. Yet, they sound different! How can this be? It's what each performer brings to their craft.

Is playing Mozart "Cookie Cutter"? I don't think so. To play Mozart well, demands excellent technique. If your technique is poor, trying to play Mozart will not be pretty!

To bring this to bonsai, the part of bonsai I like the most is the "craft" part, the techniques, more than the "art" of bonsai. Others obviously prefer the art over technique. I don't think there a right or wrong here, just a different approach.

As I have said before, bonsai can be enjoyed on many levels. Some like to collect. Others prefer using nursery material. Some like to take raw stock and "create" bonsai. Others like to take existing bonsai and take them to the next level of refinement. Some like to do all the above.

We can't all be Mozarts and write music. We need performers, too.

 

[Andrew Legg]

The Paris Thread went how long? About some really serious stuff....and nary a harsh word.

But we can't talk about TREES?

That's what we are here for yes?
Well.......

Sorce

Ja right. That chick who licks Cadilacs even banned me as a troll! A troll I tell you. I' expectations been in counseling ever since! The viciousness.

 

[sorce]

Ja right. That chick who licks Cadilacs even banned me as a troll! A troll I tell you. I' expectations been in counseling ever since! The viciousness.

Man....if you let your phone change likes to licks.....it really comes out worse!

I know you're joking.....but......I'm a Cadi "Fanboy".....be nice!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

To bring this to bonsai, the part of bonsai I like the most is the "craft" part, the techniques, more than the "art" of bonsai. Others obviously prefer the art over technique. I don't think there a right or wrong here, just a different approach.

I like this. As we can liken a rough tree to a piece of music.....and the styling as the way it's played.

Sorce

 

[johng]

JohnG,

Andrew is a classical musician. Many classical musicians don't write music, just perform. Oh, I'm sure they had to do some composition in their studies, but their focus is on performance. Performance of others "creation" of music. Now, each performer brings something personal into each performance they make.

Two performers can "interpret" a Mozart concerto entirely differently. Yes, they play the same notes. In the same rhythm. Yet, they sound different! How can this be? It's what each performer brings to their craft.

Is playing Mozart "Cookie Cutter"? I don't think so. To play Mozart well, demands excellent technique. If your technique is poor, trying to play Mozart will not be pretty!

To bring this to bonsai, the part of bonsai I like the most is the "craft" part, the techniques, more than the "art" of bonsai. Others obviously prefer the art over technique. I don't think there a right or wrong here, just a different approach.

As I have said before, bonsai can be enjoyed on many levels. Some like to collect. Others prefer using nursery material. Some like to take raw stock and "create" bonsai. Others like to take existing bonsai and take them to the next level of refinement. Some like to do all the above.

We can't all be Mozarts and write music. We need performers, too.

Thanks for the clarification... I completely agree that there are many roles to play in bonsai...and none are right or wrong...its personal taste...that is until you begin arrogantly pushing your beliefs (or your teacher's) as the ONLY way and judging others based on their adherence to the same.

 

[wireme]

Man....if you let your phone change likes to licks.....it really comes out worse!

I know you're joking.....but......I'm a Cadi "Fanboy".....be nice!

Sorce

Me too, but that's still funny!

 

[Andrew Robson]

It is just like your Bonsai Herald site...why would anyone bother to go to a source that has no original content and only regurgitates what others have already posted elsewhere???? Let me let you in on a little secret...we all read those blogs already. So who exactly is your perceived audience??

People go to the Herald because all the information is at one place. People also like the Herald because it brings their favorite bonsai information to their newsfeed on Facebook. You might not like Facebook, but you certainly can't ignore it nowadays. The best auctions are there, and it made sense to me that the best new bonsai blog posts and announcements should be there too, so I started the Herald.

My perceived audience is the 1,983 people that like my page, and the 5,000 people that my posts reach weekly. As for original content, the Herald is still in its youth. I plan on making a publication in the future, but that won't be for a few more years.

I see the point John is making, but I just had to throw in that I like the Bonsai Herald. It is nice to have everything in one place, and to me is a worthwhile idea that saves time from checking all the blogs one by one. So... Keep it up Andrew.

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy the Herald! I work hard to keep up the posts.

 

[coh]

Ja right. That chick who licks Cadilacs even banned me as a troll! A troll I tell you. I' expectations been in counseling ever since! The viciousness.

OK, I have no idea if this was written as intended, or was a typo or a victim of auto-correct...but that is damn funny! I LOL'd.