Composing your own pine bark?

[Vance Wood]

In New England as far in as upstate New York we get a lot of easterly storms year round, the humidity is too high, summers too short, and winters too harsh. Pine bark even composted never gets a chance to dry out or even decompose it goes straight to rot. As a result, even if you dont get root rot, the humid pine bark draws in Japanese Beetles which will then lay eggs in your pots just like in your lawn. Especially in your JM's as JM's are one of the Japanese Beetles favorite foods. I get that there is a lot of Mis-information on the web these days. But this information comes from over 10 years of growing bonsai and helping others across New England do the same. I've seen a lot of amazing trees die as a result of people using pine bark soil mixes up here, and although it can be done with A LOT of maintenance, it never ends well for the average grower.

Geeze, your conditions environmentally are pretty much like ours here in Michigan. You are the first person I have encountered on this site or any other that has had a problem with Japanese Beetles, I don't recall having a problem with any beetle of any description in my bonsai. I have been growing them, using composted Pine bark for probably more years than you have been alive, and I have not had a root rot problem that was my fault. People that lose a tree to root rot it is probably more to the break down of structure, and on thst argument I can give a thumbs down to Akadama which a lot of people praise as being able to raise the dead----- will in fact break down and turn to snot rather quickly. This can cause root rot a lot faster than composted Pine Bark. For growers that are thinking to make the argument against organic elements sometimes I am reminded that it sounds a lot like doctors trying to blame every condition in the medical books on smoking, from erectile dysfunction to pimples.

If you have people in your area that are losing trees to root rot I bet it is due to improper watering, or the break down of soil structure more than the use of Pine Bark in a soil mix. I've been doing this too long to believe anything else. By the time you get a tree and inspect it you most probably will find root rot but you still have not address the reason why the roots rotted, which is probably the same problem that caused the tree to suffocate and die in the first place. It's like finding a body in the woods that stinks and determining that it was decomposition that caused death. I was shown a member's tree earlier this year that was dead, The soil had insufficient drainage big time. Rot had no part in the problem that was discernible, other than entropy, the normal decomposition of dead items in a wet environment. You can do what you want to do, but don't think that this is the ending of all things. Think about it. When is the last time you went into a forest and found something growing in the kind of environment we are trying to create with all our inorganic elements.

 

[crust]

This great quandary is not about what's best or even about what works it's really about those who are willing to use the unique Japanese imported soil component acadama. Volcanic mixes, such as lava and pumice, are known to really work well but without acadama, a volcanic mix is pretty dry. Good bad or ugly, essentially bark plays the part of acadama. Why do people resist using acadama? Well, it does seem pretty ridicules and untenable to import soil nodules from far away places; of course, it's pretty expensive, especially if you have a lot of trees, but my reason is I just can't abide the thought and cultural appropriative of doing so--it just seems crazy that one can't find a superior product to grow trees in anyway. Some have said that volcanic based perfectly degraded and compressed clay beds (acadama like soil) actually exist in America--I'd buy that stuff and give it a try if it were available.

 

[Adair M]

Geeze, your conditions environmentally are pretty much like ours here in Michigan. You are the first person I have encountered on this site or any other that has had a problem with Japanese Beetles, I don't recall having a problem with any beetle of any description in my bonsai. I have been growing them, using composted Pine bark for probably more years than you have been alive, and I have not had a root rot problem that was my fault. People that lose a tree to root rot it is probably more to the break down of structure, and on thst argument I can give a thumbs down to Akadama which a lot of people praise as being able to raise the dead----- will in fact break down and turn to snot rather quickly. This can cause root rot a lot faster than composted Pine Bark. For growers that are thinking to make the argument against organic elements sometimes I am reminded that it sounds a lot like doctors trying to blame every condition in the medical books on smoking, from erectile dysfunction to pimples.

If you have people in your area that are losing trees to root rot I bet it is due to improper watering, or the break down of soil structure more than the use of Pine Bark in a soil mix. I've been doing this too long to believe anything else. By the time you get a tree and inspect it you most probably will find root rot but you still have not address the reason why the roots rotted, which is probably the same problem that caused the tree to suffocate and die in the first place. It's like finding a body in the woods that stinks and determining that it was decomposition that caused death. I was shown a member's tree earlier this year that was dead, The soil had insufficient drainage big time. Rot had no part in the problem that was discernible, other than entropy, the normal decomposition of dead items in a wet environment. You can do what you want to do, but don't think that this is the ending of all things. Think about it. When is the last time you went into a forest and found something growing in the kind of environment we are trying to create with all our inorganic elements.

Vance, have you ever actually used akadama?

 

[Anthony]

The akadama problem is simply this, it will break down and you have to clean out your root system.
Pie shape or half removal , has anyone checked for what happens to an old tree, with this type
of soil removal ?

Why do it ? If you can bypass the problem.

Clay mixes encourage fat useless roots, no real feeders.

Plus, why keep importing from Japan, find it locally. Stop being a victim.

A simple inorganic mix, plus a little organic works. KISS.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

KISS

You gotta have the Balls to be Bearing!

Wow....that could be interpreted grossly!

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

The akadama problem is simply this, it will break down and you have to clean out your root system.
Pie shape or half removal , has anyone checked for what happens to an old tree, with this type
of soil removal ?

Why do it ? If you can bypass the problem.

Clay mixes encourage fat useless roots, no real feeders.

Plus, why keep importing from Japan, find it locally. Stop being a victim.

A simple inorganic mix, plus a little organic works. KISS.
Good Day
Anthony

No soil is "permanent" in a bonsai pot. Whether or not it breaks down. The fact of the matter is we have to get in and prune the roots from time to time. To keep the tree healthy.

In the old days, we used the term "root pruning". I don't hear anyone say that anymore, it's "repotting".

Even if akadama didn't break down, it would still be important to repot and refresh the root system periodically.

There is a famous American bonsai artist, Dan Robinson, who does not believe in repotting. As I understand it, he believes the old roots will begin to die off, and rot, and new roots will use them as organic material for continued growth. Great theory, I suppose, but his trees in his garden are all sick and dying.

So, personally, I have found that akadama breaking down is a non-issue because the root system needs to be cut back every so often. Cutting the root system back keeps it young and healthy. Constantly rejuvenating itself.

I can understand not wanting to use it because of the cost. The cost is almost all shipping costs, the product itself is cheap! If akadama is too expensive or not available just use a mix of lava and pumice. No organics needed.

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance, have you ever actually used akadama?

Yes it was given to me by a business that sells it. I was not impressed, it turned to mud pretty quickly, I can have Turface do this at a third the cost. If I can't keep a soil viable for more than four years I have to change the soil or some of its components. Here is an important thing however, if you believe in the soil mix you are using and you have had great success with it, as I have with mine, I see no need to change it or move into something else. I have been known to experiment with additional things like Red Lava and Pumice, which I now use but have trouble finding, were just additions before they were replacements. As to your assertion to use just Lava and Pumice and get rid of the bark seems to me to be only political, and have little to do with the health of the tree. I have found that microrizha seems to form more quickly with the bark in the soil. With most conifers in nature especially the conifers we are interested in have the presence of bark in the surface of the soil.

 

[Adair M]

Yes it was given to me by a business that sells it. I was not impressed, it turned to mud pretty quickly, I can have Turface do this at a third the cost. If I can't keep a soil viable for more than four years I have to change the soil or some of its components. Here is an important thing however, if you believe in the soil mix you are using and you have had great success with it, as I have with mine, I see no need to change it or move into something else. I have been known to experiment with additional things like Red Lava and Pumice, which I now use but have trouble finding, were just additions before they were replacements.

I usually repot before 4 years have passed.

I find that Turface is too small grained.

One thing that makes any soil mix last longer is to annually scrape off the top 1/2 to 3/4 inch of soil, and replace it with fresh. This gets rid of weed seeds, crust from fertilizers and algae buildup, and broken down whatever is on the top surface. I do this in the fall.

 

[bonhe]

The amount of water held is directly related to particle size. Now I don't know if you have ever watched the repotting of a pine which has been in 100 % akadama for five or more years but you would notice that the soil has by then been pretty much dissolved into dust. The probability that a soft akadama may have been used is immaterial. The fact is that individual particles are no longer visible yet the root system is healthy which means there is sufficient O2 around the roots..

I agree with you 100%. It is why I rarely use akadama now. I still have about 7 - 8 akadama bags in the garage. I have been using pine mini-barks in the soil content instead. Pine bark is much much cheaper than akadama!
p/s: I only use akadama for the small bonsai.
Bonhe

 

[M. Frary]

No soil is "permanent" in a bonsai pot. Whether or not it breaks down. The fact of the matter is we have to get in and prune the roots from time to time. To keep the tree healthy.

But if it doesn't turn to mush it's much easier on the roots to get it out.
With D.E.,pumice and leave you just give the tree a good shake to get the loose stuff out. Then you leave the rest and cut the roots. It's hard on scissors but it's way less stress on the tree.
I still call it root pruning.
Repotting can mean a couple different things.
Like just changing out pots.

 

[Vance Wood]

It becomes necessary to understand why root pruning should be practiced. The roots of a tree have two functions in the life. The one part we are most acquainted with is that of providing the support and anchoring of the tree to withstand the rigors of nature, in other word make big and powerful roots. In many cases we would all approve of the impressive and grasping surface roots that look so beautiful crawling accros the surface of our bonsai. However; roots like these look nice but do very little in keeping the tree alive, just keeping the tree from being blown out of the ground.

In bonsai we spend our efforts trying to get a tree to change the way it works. We love the massive surface roots but if you go into the basement those massive roots are nothing more than the floor joists upon which the tree is supported. Below that you want to see an abundance of fine roots. It is the fine roots that feed the tree, transfer water, air and nutrients and support the life force of the tree. The more fine roots you have in a soil ball the less the support roots are needed for anything but decoration. The fine roots by their number are stronger than a bunch of really large roots occupying the same space. The more fine roots the more shallow the pot can be where you plant the tree. Sadly with some exceptions, a tree does not produce a root system like this unless provoked. A root system like this is provoked into existence by pruning the larger roots and removing the really large roots where none of the fine roots are attached. If this is done periodically the tree will make the kind of root system you need it to make.

 

[Anthony]

Sifu,

as usual thanks for taking the time to respond.

You know we checked a good many trees, a year or two or three ago.
What we found was, no root thickening, age range of trees 30+ years..
So in 30 more years we will let you know what else we find.

We repot some trees yearly, because they need it.
But many as they get older grow finer branches and leaves, the roots respond by staying slim.

Our idea is to see if there is a more natural way to go.
Working with nature.

We use the older terms of - potting on - as opposed to the - slip potting.

When we read that only those near Tokyo, I believe, use akadama and that the practice was based on
an old farming habits, we left it behind.

Just a simple mix of silica based gravel [ as opposed to volcanic gravel ------ which might have alkalies and alkalines
in too much abundance ------ the tamarinds are acid soil and hate Canadian granite.
Grow poorly in it.] and compost will grow almost anything.

Some do need an inorganic that can hold moisture in itself. As their demands for moisture in full sun exposure
with winds is greater.

J.B.pines on our side enjoy the simple mix and porous pots. Staying very lush and green.Just did some more
hardwood cuttings ---------- wish us luck.

My suggestion would always be to use your home resources, as this is a hobby or is it ?
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Adair M]

Sifu,

as usual thanks for taking the time to respond.

You know we checked a good many trees, a year or two or three ago.
What we found was, no root thickening, age range of trees 30+ years..
So in 30 more years we will let you know what else we find.

We repot some trees yearly, because they need it.
But many as they get older grow finer branches and leaves, the roots respond by staying slim.

Our idea is to see if there is a more natural way to go.
Working with nature.

We use the older terms of - potting on - as opposed to the - slip potting.

When we read that only those near Tokyo, I believe, use akadama and that the practice was based on
an old farming habits, we left it behind.

Just a simple mix of silica based gravel [ as opposed to volcanic gravel ------ which might have alkalies and alkalines
in too much abundance ------ the tamarinds are acid soil and hate Canadian granite.
Grow poorly in it.] and compost will grow almost anything.

Some do need an inorganic that can hold moisture in itself. As their demands for moisture in full sun exposure
with winds is greater.

J.B.pines on our side enjoy the simple mix and porous pots. Staying very lush and green.Just did some more
hardwood cuttings ---------- wish us luck.

My suggestion would always be to use your home resources, as this is a hobby or is it ?
Good Day
Anthony

Anthony, local trees are adapted to grow in the local soil. JBP are not native to you, so try to give them a soil mix that they like.

That said, trees are not generally constrained by pots living in nature. Their root systems can grow out "indefinitely". Mountain yamadori are the exception as they often grow in dips in rocks, and in limited crevasses. Which is why their growth is so constrained.

What we are trying to do with bonsai is make the tree look as if the roots are growing as they would "naturally", yet keep them constrained. And still keep the tree healthy. Tbe best way to do this is repot, reduce the roots, encourage the small feeder roots, and provide fresh soil for the roots to grow into. This keeps the root system young and vigorous, and makes for a healthy tree.

 

[Adair M]

It becomes necessary to understand why root pruning should be practiced. The roots of a tree have two functions in the life. The one part we are most acquainted with is that of providing the support and anchoring of the tree to withstand the rigors of nature, in other word make big and powerful roots. In many cases we would all approve of the impressive and grasping surface roots that look so beautiful crawling accros the surface of our bonsai. However; roots like these look nice but do very little in keeping the tree alive, just keeping the tree from being blown out of the ground.

In bonsai we spend our efforts trying to get a tree to change the way it works. We love the massive surface roots but if you go into the basement those massive roots are nothing more than the floor joists upon which the tree is supported. Below that you want to see an abundance of fine roots. It is the fine roots that feed the tree, transfer water, air and nutrients and support the life force of the tree. The more fine roots you have in a soil ball the less the support roots are needed for anything but decoration. The fine roots by their number are stronger than a bunch of really large roots occupying the same space. The more fine roots the more shallow the pot can be where you plant the tree. Sadly with some exceptions, a tree does not produce a root system like this unless provoked. A root system like this is provoked into existence by pruning the larger roots and removing the really large roots where none of the fine roots are attached. If this is done periodically the tree will make the kind of root system you need it to make.

I agree with you, Vance. Wiring the tree into the pot firmly provides the anchoring function. So, large roots aren't required for support. The small roots can then have more container space to absorb water and nutrients.

We do to the roots just like the top: let grow, cut back. Let grow, cut back. Keeps the tree vigorous and healthy.

 

[aphid]

I finally found composted bark at a local nursery (Mahoney's in Winchester, MA if you're in eastern MA).

 

[aphid]

The compost is wet though so I sieved by spraying water into a colander to push the small bits out.

I also sieved the OptiSorb using a mesh basket from Amazon. That's the first bin in the left. The 2nd bin has the fines that fell through. I'll put that in my vegetable beds.

 

[aphid]

Here's 80% OptiSorb + 15% composted pine + 5% pine fines from Bonsai Jack.

Optisorb is a bit larger than Floor Dri part 8822 from Napa Auto, but it's very white when dry. My backyard has white spots everywhere now..

 

[aphid]

I repotted several maples today. Here's a Kotohime in 100% diatomite from Napa Auto for 2 years.

 

[Adair M]

The akadama problem is simply this, it will break down and you have to clean out your root system.
Pie shape or half removal , has anyone checked for what happens to an old tree, with this type
of soil removal ?

Why do it ? If you can bypass the problem.

Clay mixes encourage fat useless roots, no real feeders.

Plus, why keep importing from Japan, find it locally. Stop being a victim.

A simple inorganic mix, plus a little organic works. KISS.
Good Day
Anthony

Anthony, have you ever used akadama? Have you ever even seen any? How would you know what the problem with akadama is?

As for "half soil removal", yes, I do it all the time. (During repotting season.). On bonsai of all ages. It is very effective at keeping bonsai healthy. ESPECIALLY rejuvenating old bonsai!

 

[justBonsai]

I buy orchid bark from a local seller on ebay. He advertises it for bonsai use. On my third year with the stuff and trees seem fine. Most of the root issues I've had in my few years of bonsai were from over potting and improper watering.