Composing your own pine bark?

[Anthony]

Sifu,

Once again thank you for taking the time to respond. Appreciated.

you seem to have forgotten the bit I did over on the other site [BSG].
We bought the stuff, tested it, fired it and anything else we
could do to it. It falls apart rapidly down here, turns to mud.

Note the question was about trees ageing and responding to having the core of the rooting interfered with.
Not a cut against the - half soil removal .
Good Day
Anthony

 

[CWTurner]

The compost is wet though so I sieved by spraying water into a colander to push the small bits out.

Did that work OK for you? I spread mine out to dry before I sift.
CW

 

[bonhe]

I buy orchid bark from a local seller on ebay. He advertises it for bonsai use. On my third year with the stuff and trees seem fine. Most of the root issues I've had in my few years of bonsai were from over potting and improper watering.

You might not know this. You can buy 2 cu. ft. orchid seedling mini-bark bag at Orange Farm supply (Orange city) for around $11. If you say to them that you are bonsai club member, they will give you 10 - 20 % off (depended on the cashier ! ). I and some of my friends in Orange Bonsai Study group always buy bonsai related stuff from this great store!
p/s: I wish they carried lava cinders !!!!
Bonhe

 

[Adair M]

Sifu,

Once again thank you for taking the time to respond. Appreciated.

you seem to have forgotten the bit I did over on the other site [BSG].
We bought the stuff, tested it, fired it and anything else we
could do to it. It falls apart rapidly down here, turns to mud.

Note the question was about trees ageing and responding to having the core of the rooting interfered with.
Not a cut against the - half soil removal .
Good Day
Anthony

"Falls apart rapidly". What is "rapidly"?

Why did you fire it? It is supposed to have been heated to sterilize it before packaging, but not "fired" the way a pot is fired.

It is supposed to break down over time.

And there are several brands and hardnesses.

My experience:

I always seive my akadama to get a uniform size to pot with. I mix it with lava and pumice of the same size. In deciduous, it lasts a couple years, conifers about 4 to 5.

Right after the tsunami, it was difficult to get quality akadama, the mines were flooded by the tsunami. The recent akadama shipments are better.

 

[M. Frary]

Right after the tsunami, it was difficult to get quality akadama, the mines were flooded by the tsunami

Turned to mush I bet.

 

[Anthony]

Hee hee Sifu,

this is just to tease you ------------------ silica based gravel lasts forever, as does crushed sifted red earthenware brick.
Compost can dissolve and be replaced by downward filtering of fresh material.

Now why on earth would I use a clay compound ?

Yes, I know it works for many, just not down here.
Plus as you might have noted I am a big believer in using what's at home ----------- saves cash.
Cheapo me.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Adair M]

Hee hee Sifu,

this is just to tease you ------------------ silica based gravel lasts forever, as does crushed sifted red earthenware brick.
Compost can dissolve and be replaced by downward filtering of fresh material.

Now why on earth would I use a clay compound ?

Yes, I know it works for many, just not down here.
Plus as you might have noted I am a big believer in using what's at home ----------- saves cash.
Cheapo me.
Good Day
Anthony

Silica based gravel is "sharp" rather than rounded. As is crushed brick.

I prefer particles with a more rounded shape.

I have a horse arena of crushed granite. A virtual unlimited supply. I don't use it for bonsai. It packs. Rounded particles are much less likely to pack.

 

[Adair M]

Turned to mush I bet.

No, saturated with salt.

 

[coh]

Regarding "turning to mush".

About 3 years ago I started experimenting with akadama in some of my trees. Some of those trees have been repotted this spring for the first time since the akadama was added to the soil mix. I found plenty of intact akadama particles and I live in a climate with frequent deep freezes and freeze-thaw cycles.

 

[Adair M]

Regarding "turning to mush".

About 3 years ago I started experimenting with akadama in some of my trees. Some of those trees have been repotted this spring for the first time since the akadama was added to the soil mix. I found plenty of intact akadama particles and I live in a climate with frequent deep freezes and freeze-thaw cycles.

Yes, the best approach is to perform "soji" at the end of the growing season. Scrape away 1/2 to 3/4 inch of the top soil of the pot, and refresh with new. This gets rid of weed seeds, gunk from fertilizers, crusted algae, etc. Do this for any tree you DONT plan in repotting in spring. (It's optional for those you are planning to repot, but it's kind of a waste since you'll be repotting in couple months.)

 

[wireme]

Yes, the best approach is to perform "soji" at the end of the growing season. Scrape away 1/2 to 3/4 inch of the top soil of the pot, and refresh with new. This gets rid of weed seeds, gunk from fertilizers, crusted algae, etc. Do this for any tree you DONT plan in repotting in spring. (It's optional for those you are planning to repot, but it's kind of a waste since you'll be repotting in couple months.)

I do that in the spring on a case by case basis if I feel it's needed. It's better here since trees are just frozen all winter anyways and get buried in mulch that needs cleaning off in spring anyways.

 

[Adair M]

I do that in the spring on a case by case basis if I feel it's needed. It's better here since trees are just frozen all winter anyways and get buried in mulch that needs cleaning off in spring anyways.

Part of the reason for doing it in the fall is to get rid of pests and molds and fungi that might overwinter.

After soji, a dormant spray of lime sulfur or similiar can help prevent diseases.

 

[wireme]

Does anyone compose your own pine bark?

I have not been able to locate pine bark fines or soil conditioner at Lowe's, Home Depot, or a nursery near me (Boston area). There's plenty of pine mulch though. I could use it around my garden as mulch and sieve it in a year or two? Do I need to do anything to it?

Would be much cheaper than buying sieved pine fines on the internet. Although, $77 for 14 gallons isn't that bad, but it would be much cheaper if I make it myself.

I really doubt that it needs to be composted at all. There is the nitrogen robbing (borrowing?) thing but the stuff is very slow to decay anyways, nitrogen robbing may not be a big deal. Some people even claim fresh is better, I personally doubt that it matters much either way and I have used fresh, composted, other similar substances..I say just try it straight from the source on developing trees with little value, see what happens and decide for yourself. I think a bit like Anthony I guess, keep it local, keep it simple, stay observant.

 

[wireme]

Part of the reason for doing it in the fall is to get rid of pests and molds and fungi that might overwinter.

After soji, a dormant spray of lime sulfur or similiar can help prevent diseases.

Well anything that might overwinter is as I say frozen solid and not active, spring or fall I don't think there's a great difference for my climate and I don't like to disturb surface roots in any way coming into winter. Plus the mulch cleaning thing, dunno it seems to make more sense for me in spring. Dormant sprays are different, I haven't done that for years but I probably should and have/would/should in fall. Snow is almost gone now, can start chipping trees out of frozen mulch in a week or so it looks like.

 

[Anthony]

Sifu,

particles are 5 mm in size for inorganics, for smaller trees 3 mm. Never had the packing effect as there
isn't anything to pack.
BUT if it did pack, would we have seeds, seedlings and cuttings at 30 plus years old ?

When our soil ages the organics leave and you end up with 1/2 " to 1 " of loose material.
Nothing to gum up the surface.
We depend on sun, wind and plants not touching each other to keep everyone healthy.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Ethomas157]

The "issue" with straight pine bark is that it will supposedly leach nitrogen from the soil at the expense of the potted tree. The fact is that we fertilize so often that nitrogen availability won't ever be an issue, even when using uncomposted components.

Thank you for putting this in here I have been using straight pine bark for a while. Thank you for helping me understand. I started in bonsai last year and still have no idea what I'm doing but so far my trees a alive.

If I don't use organic soils, will I get rid of the gnats as a side question?

 

[Dav4]

Thank you for putting this in here I have been using straight pine bark for a while. Thank you for helping me understand. I started in bonsai last year and still have no idea what I'm doing but so far my trees a alive.

If I don't use organic soils, will I get rid of the gnats as a side question?

Probably? Gnats love moisture, so a drier soil should have less gnat issues