Bjorn’s Single Flush Pine technique explained!

[Adair M]

Yes, that's why I'm watching videos in the first place. The maintenance is all in the books and articles, but getting to that point seems to be a well kept secret. Or at least a greyish area.
I know Mirai is doing a beginner series, and they're doing it pretty well. But they're at a point where basic 'keeping it alive' is still a concern, and I get it, that's where people start. Bjorn makes creative jumps, but almost all of his work is on very well established trees. And he's rocking that!

I myself am at a point where all of my trees are either seedlings, or 'in betweens' (or trash, depending on who you ask). And developmental videos are something I'm hoping for. The Peter Warren video on page 2 was exactly what I needed. But if Bjorn covers it a second time, I'd be glad to watch it.

Look, Bjorn was going to trim that Scots pine anyway. So, I’m sure he felt it would be a good idea to make a video of the work on that tree, and give himself a bit of publicity.

It’s free. You’re not paying him anything. He doesn’t owe anyone a full demonstration, or work planon how to griw bonsai from scratch. He’s just demonstrating what needs to be done on THAT tree at THIS time of year, in THIS stage of development.

what else can you expect from a free, 5 minute video?

You want a full curriculum of how to develop and grow pines? Sign up for his series of classes that are taught at 3 or 4 times at different times of the year and each has a length of 3 days!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I know that @Adair M . I didn't expect anything more. I'm not arguing, just answering a question you put out there. If it was a rhetoric one, then I'll happily delete the comment for you.
As for the not paying him anything, please.. I already donated the guy more money than the most expensive tree in my collection will ever be worth. That is a poor frame of reference, but it was a lot of money to me. And he doesn't owe me anything, I'm fully aware of that. That's what a donation is.

A quick calculation tells me that the full Bjornholm classroom experience would cost me 1/3rd of my annual wage (flight tickets + visa + classes, not even car rental, housing and other things). The fun part is that I'd never be able to take a tree home alive since I'm on another continent.

I was just saying, yes, I'd like to have more videos on development. You asked.

 

[Adair M]

I know that @Adair M . I didn't expect anything more. I'm not arguing, just answering a question you put out there. If it was a rhetoric one, then I'll happily delete the comment for you.
As for the not paying him anything, please.. I already donated the guy more money than the most expensive tree in my collection will ever be worth. That is a poor frame of reference, but it was a lot of money to me. And he doesn't owe me anything, I'm fully aware of that. That's what a donation is.

A quick calculation tells me that the full Bjornholm classroom experience would cost me 1/3rd of my annual wage (flight tickets + visa + classes, not even car rental, housing and other things). The fun part is that I'd never be able to take a tree home alive since I'm on another continent.

I was just saying, yes, I'd like to have more videos on development. You asked.

Or sign up for Ryan’s Mirai Live videos.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

What big problems does this cause! An ugly graft union that is hard to disguise? I'm thinking of acquiring a jwp in the near future so I was just curious.

Some can have ugly grafts, but even the best grafts will show an completely different character of bark unless the graft is done extremely low (almost at the roots). I also believe that it changes the character of the needles, but there is some disagreement about whether this truly happens (or it is my imagination).

Check out this JWP graft on JBP root stock. Even though the graft itself is completely healed, you can tell exactly where the scion meets the root stock because of the two different bark characteristics.

 

[Maloghurst]

Yes, that's why I'm watching videos in the first place. The maintenance is all in the books and articles, but getting to that point seems to be a well kept secret. Or at least a greyish area.
I know Mirai is doing a beginner series, and they're doing it pretty well. But they're at a point where basic 'keeping it alive' is still a concern, and I get it, that's where people start. Bjorn makes creative jumps, but almost all of his work is on very well established trees. And he's rocking that!

I myself am at a point where all of my trees are either seedlings, or 'in betweens' (or trash, depending on who you ask). And developmental videos are something I'm hoping for. The Peter Warren video on page 2 was exactly what I needed. But if Bjorn covers it a second time, I'd be glad to watch it.

Bjorn has been posting great videos lately of how to begin material. He’s done two videos on Clumps and shohin juniper from cuttings that I thought were informative.
But your right in general people are not very open about developing great stock. But then again great stock in the US doesn’t even come close to Japan’s great stock. Even the people that know what they are doing here are still making mistakes and putting out a lot of soso material.
People were still importing material not that long ago.

 

[Adair M]

Some can have ugly grafts, but even the best grafts will show an completely different character of bark unless the graft is done extremely low (almost at the roots). I also believe that it changes the character of the needles, but there is some disagreement about whether this truly happens (or it is my imagination).

Check out this JWP graft on JBP root stock. Even though the graft itself is completely healed, you can tell exactly where the scion meets the root stock because of the two different bark characteristics.

View attachment 298695

Yes, the JWP section is just starting to crack up the juvenile JWP bark. It takes about 20 to 25 years for JWP to get to this stage. If you want to accelerate the JWP bark development, you can try peeling off some of the old smooth sections of bark. Don’t force it, if it doesn’t pop off easily, it’s not “ready”. But when it does, it will reveal reddish brown mature bark underneath that will turn grey in time, and it will become almost indistinguishable from the JBP bark. It takes about 10 years to get from the “flaky” stage to “mature bark” stage on JWP.

 

[Djtommy]

Some can have ugly grafts, but even the best grafts will show an completely different character of bark unless the graft is done extremely low (almost at the roots). I also believe that it changes the character of the needles, but there is some disagreement about whether this truly happens (or it is my imagination).

Check out this JWP graft on JBP root stock. Even though the graft itself is completely healed, you can tell exactly where the scion meets the root stock because of the two different bark characteristics.

View attachment 298695

It hurts to say this tree is death now (Since few years) because of my mistreatment...
Thanx to the forum and watching many videos(and some classes in Omiya) I’m not making such mistakes again.

 

[Vance Wood]

@Vance Wood are Scotch pines two Needle single flush? Jwp are five needle right?do you have a thread where you've described your technique in greater detail? I would like to check it out. I'm so bummed about the Coronavirus because I was hoping that my son and I could have come to you and spent some time with you with our trees as we'd discussed last year!!!

The season is not over yet, we have months before we have to do stuff.

 

[Vance Wood]

Yes, that's why I'm watching videos in the first place. The maintenance is all in the books and articles, but getting to that point seems to be a well kept secret. Or at least a greyish area.
I know Mirai is doing a beginner series, and they're doing it pretty well. But they're at a point where basic 'keeping it alive' is still a concern, and I get it, that's where people start. Bjorn makes creative jumps, but almost all of his work is on very well established trees. And he's rocking that!

I myself am at a point where all of my trees are either seedlings, or 'in betweens' (or trash, depending on who you ask). And developmental videos are something I'm hoping for. The Peter Warren video on page 2 was exactly what I needed. But if Bjorn covers it a second time, I'd be glad to watch it.

It well may be an apparent secret when in fact it may be an example of not knowing for sure. Here is a question many of you have probablly never thought about: If Mugo and Scotts Pines are not grown in Japan and are not available in Japan is there any other single flush Pine that is grown in Japan used in bonsai? Only the Five Needle Pine and it is not a two needle Pine even thoigh it is only a single flush Pine.

 

[Cascading-Echinocactus]

Does anyone have experience applying ga3 on dwarf cultivars of Pinus parviflora? Or -could someone link an article discussing the application on any conifer with dwarf phenotypes?
Thanks

 

[0soyoung]

Does anyone have experience applying ga3 on dwarf cultivars of Pinus parviflora? Or -could someone link an article discussing the application on any conifer with dwarf phenotypes?
Thanks

Are you wanting them to have longer internodes?

 

[Cascading-Echinocactus]

Sort of. I am curious to see if small applications would affect the growth of young dwarf conifers in development and other species which would otherwise take many years to gain a substantial amount of mass. I've seen the effect it can have on some plants that are mass produced in the whole-sale nursery trade and seedlings in vitro, but am not sure of its effect on conifers. If it's possible to increase branch extension and root growth, it seems like it would be useful, even if it could only be applied once or twice.

 

[0soyoung]

I don't think gibberellins (there are hundreds, of which GA3 is common and most easily available) will do what you are looking for them to do. They interfere with flowering, are necessary for fruiting, and otherwise just let cells stretch. But @Wires_Guy_wires is the guy you need to talk to.


BTW, if you find out I'm wrong, I want to know about it and maybe in on the deal as well.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Does anyone have experience applying ga3 on dwarf cultivars of Pinus parviflora? Or -could someone link an article discussing the application on any conifer with dwarf phenotypes?
Thanks

No experience with GA's on pines. The goal of most tissue cultures is to get fast growing trees multiplied for timber planting or as commercial stock, so I think the literature on almost the opposite will be hard to find. But judging from the dwarfs I've chemically induced, I'd say you would need to start with seedlings. Everything sizes down to relative scale, so you'll end up with whimsy and thin branches and tiny needles on fat trunks if you try it with an established plant. Imagine spruce branches on a pine, something like that.
My own dwarfs have produced some escaping/running branches that turned back to regular growth. Since pines are so slow to respond, there can be a huge timeframe between application and effect. Something I'm trying to zone down on this year. A couple of mine are receiving relatively large amounts of cytokinins with their waterings. 6-12mg/L for instance.
The first and biggest issue I'm running in to is that literature is mostly about tissue culture, where there's direct contact with the medium and usually no roots until the final stage. This greatly reduces that time frame. In potted culture there are a lot more variables. From what I've read, pines stop sticking to seasonal growth in most TC settings, whereas in potted cultures, they either flush once or twice. This makes the ideal time of application a wild guess, especially for hormones with a limited shelf life. Apply them too soon and they might degrade before anything happens, apply them too late and.. Well, more or less the same.
I hope to be able to produce some data this year, but it would be faster if someone would be doing some TC experiments at home. I used to have a DIY setup that worked pretty well, so if you need hints, tips or tricks on how to do it relatively cheap, I can always share my techniques. Might be better to do that in another thread though.

 

[BonsaiDawg]

Yes, the JWP section is just starting to crack up the juvenile JWP bark. It takes about 20 to 25 years for JWP to get to this stage. If you want to accelerate the JWP bark development, you can try peeling off some of the old smooth sections of bark. Don’t force it, if it doesn’t pop off easily, it’s not “ready”. But when it does, it will reveal reddish brown mature bark underneath that will turn grey in time, and it will become almost indistinguishable from the JBP bark. It takes about 10 years to get from the “flaky” stage to “mature bark” stage on JWP.

It'd be surprising to me that those in this country truly committed to creating pinus bonsai on a higher level really care about JWP. Why waste time and effort on a non-native and inferior species when you could avoid all these problems by developing a collected and native Limber pine that produces more flaky bark than you'll ever want? Makes absolutely no sense. #somepeoplewillneverlearn

 

[Bonsai Nut]

It'd be surprising to me that those in this country truly committed to creating pinus bonsai on a higher level really care about JWP. Why waste time and effort on a non-native and inferior species

Just because a species (or cultivar) is different from another, and just because I have my favorites, doesn't mean that I would consider another species "inferior". I'm not trolling you - rather suggesting that (at least in my opinion) there isn't one single "best" species for anything. Even in Japan there are numerous cultivars of JWP that are all a little different. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.

That said, if I had a favorite native white pine it would be Bristlecone (P. aristata) However I'm here to tell you that I am seeing some P. strobus (Eastern White Pine) cultivars out here in North Carolina that are looking very interesting as bonsai candidates. P. strobus has typically been a looked-down on native species due to leggy growth, long internodes, and long needles.

 

[Lazylightningny]

It'd be surprising to me that those in this country truly committed to creating pinus bonsai on a higher level really care about JWP. Why waste time and effort on a non-native and inferior species when you could avoid all these problems by developing a collected and native Limber pine that produces more flaky bark than you'll ever want? Makes absolutely no sense. #somepeoplewillneverlearn

This is absolutely the thing that could make American bonsai stand out. Instead of "copying" the work of other nations (nothing wrong with that mind you), use our own species which seem to have great potential. East coast to West, we have a huge country with a lot of native species that those at the top of the apex are experimenting with.

 

[Vance Wood]

This is absolutely the thing that could make American bonsai stand out. Instead of "copying" the work of other nations (nothing wrong with that mind you), use our own species which seem to have great potential. East coast to West, we have a huge country with a lot of native species that those at the top of the apex are experimenting with.

The reason it does not happen is the availability of material, and the shunning by the bonsai community of nursery material. I might add that native five needle Pines are notoriously difficult to cultivate.

 

[Adair M]

Just because a species (or cultivar) is different from another, and just because I have my favorites, doesn't mean that I would consider another species "inferior". I'm not trolling you - rather suggesting that (at least in my opinion) there isn't one single "best" species for anything. Even in Japan there are numerous cultivars of JWP that are all a little different. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.

That said, if I had a favorite native white pine it would be Bristlecone (P. aristata) However I'm here to tell you that I am seeing some P. strobus (Eastern White Pine) cultivars out here in North Carolina that are looking very interesting as bonsai candidates. P. strobus has typically been a looked-down on native species due to leggy growth, long internodes, and long needles.

Ah! You’ve moved!

yes, there are a few cultivars of EWP that have shorter needles and internodes. At this point in time, they’re not well known nor widely available. The bark is much like JWP in that it takes decades to mature.

Actually, at this time it is easier to obtain JWP than a dwarf EWP, and the JWP foliage is still superior to the dwarf EWP I’ve seen.

As for Limber Pine, I have no problem with them, except they’re not any more “native” to where I live than JWP. In fact, I suspect JWP’s natural habitat is more closely aligned with mine than Limber Pine.

I have tried Ponderosa Pine. I have found that in my climate, the needles grow too long to have a pleasing tree at the size I can manage. Larry Jackel visited my garden and remarked how I had a garden full of “small” trees. All the trees he maintains are two to three times bigger! My trees are about 24 inches tall. He said his were about 4 feet or so! Larry has a lot of Pondys. Well, at that scale, longer needles are acceptable. But for a 24 inch tall tree, a needle length of 4 inches just doesn’t work. At least not for me.

In this time of Globalization, the nationality of the tree is not important. If it makes good bonsai, it makes good bonsai.

 

[R3x]

Very clear explanations. Even his accent is top notch, I understood every single word he said - good diction too !

Am I missing something here? Guy is American AFAIK so shouldn't be much of an issue...