Another Mugo Restyle beginning

[gjantzer]

The multiple colors of moss really pop off the subtle color of that pot too. Great pot! Dang, I was probably still in diapers when you bought that tree……..

 

[Vance Wood]

The multiple colors of moss really pop off the subtle color of that pot too. Great pot! Dang, I was probably still in diapers when you bought that tree……..

I have had the tree near twenty years. I agree about the pot. I had another one just like it but a darker green. A meter reader steped on it and broke it in the snow a number of years ago when he tried to take a short cut into the next yard. I have at least three species of moss that grows in my yard that I can make use of from time to time.

 

[Vance Wood]

Wow.. I can't say enough times how beautiful this tree is. Although it has probably been covered Vance. When you remove the candle,s are you twisting/pinching them off or cutting them off right above the base. I assume you are cutting them.

Rob

I cut the shoots starting in July, in about two weeks.

Here is my break down. Tree starts with buds, then they develop into candles and when the needles start to extend and open they become shoots. It is important that you understand what I am reffering to. Starting in July I start removing the new shoots back to one or two millimeters above where the new growth began in the spring. I remove them with scissors. Again; with Mugo and Scots Pines the idea is to encourage a multitude of new buds for next spring not attempt to get a second flush of growth as with JBP's. This process should not be continued more than three years in a row. One out of four years the tree should be left to develop by its own means.

 

[october]

Thanks Vance, so you are essentailly cutting off the whole candle or new extention of growth, then new buds form as the site, correct?

As far as scots pine. I was told, by someone from Japan and has a ton of experience with Bonsai in Japan. To not cut scots pine buds, but to twist and pinch them. Like you would a white pine.

Rob

 

[Neli]

Master VW,
It is lovely! I enjoyed the video, but it made me jealous.

 

[Vance Wood]

Thanks Vance, so you are essentailly cutting off the whole candle or new extention of growth, then new buds form as the site, correct?

As far as scots pine. I was told, by someone from Japan and has a ton of experience with Bonsai in Japan. To not cut scots pine buds, but to twist and pinch them. Like you would a white pine.

Rob

I wonder what that person would tell you about Mugo Pine? I treat Scots just like I do Mugo and they react in basically the same way. I was not aware that Scots Pine was used extensively in Japan to the point that many of their "Masters" have extensive experience with the tree? He may be right I am after all just an old fat Gijing (sp?) that thinks he knows something about bonsai,--- seriously. I can only tell you or anyone else, things from my experience.

However there are, or were, multitudes of sources saying that Mugos are difficult to repot and that they die easily and that you cannot grow them here--where ever here might be. I have found that most of what people have been saying about Mugos and Scots Pines is rubbish. Most of the people that tell you these things don't have any of the trees themselves.

Understanding that the problem they have, cannot possibly be related to the fact that they are cultivating the tree wrong, they after all know every thing. The logical conclusion is that no one can grow these trees for long. What is really being said is I can't grow one therefore no one can. Mugos and Scots Pines are just novelties and should not be a subject for serious bonsaiist. You should after al,l grow Japanese Black Pine and Japanese White Pine and if you are really adventerous; Japanese Red Pine. These are, and I think everyone who is anyone in bonsai will agree, these are the only Pine trees acceptable for bonsai culture.

Does this not sound familiar if not funny, ---and I don't mean funny Ha Ha,---I mean funny peculiar, that there are still people selling this misinformation? I know that you might sit back and say: "Here he goes again, we've heard all of this stuff before." But; I think that both the Scots and the Mugo are superior trees for bonsai even if it means I make enemies. Even if it means what I tell you, or anyone who listens, that the play book of Bonsai with Two Needle Pines is wrong when it tries to link all two needle Pines together in the same category and insists that they be treated the same as Japanese Black Pine. The only reason that you have a sub culture that deals with White Pines is because it is such a beautiful tree and has become so popular that a set of rules and practices had to evolve to allow the "Five Needle Pine". But the funny (peculiar) thing is when a lot of these Two-Needle-Pine experts are cornered into answering questions about the Mugo or Scots Pine they do what???? wait for it?????? They know the two trees are different so they have to default to something they already know (opposed to learning something new) which is Five Needle Pine culture.

 

[Vance Wood]

Master VW,
It is lovely! I enjoyed the video, but it made me jealous.

I am no master, not even close, but thank you for making the reference and I will take it as a compliment. Why you would be jealous when you have demonstrated your skills and knowledge at a high level? Maybe it is the trees???? This I can understand. I know in your climate Mugos are probably not going to survive. I am surprised that you can get any Pine to survive there and that speaks volumes about your skill and determination.

 

[Neli]

I am no master, not even close, but thank you for making the reference and I will take it as a compliment. Why you would be jealous when you have demonstrated your skills and knowledge at a high level? Maybe it is the trees???? This I can understand. I know in your climate Mugos are probably not going to survive. I am surprised that you can get any Pine to survive there and that speaks volumes about your skill and determination.

Yes I can not keep mugos or JWP, though I have some...just trying to see how long they will last with extra care,
Thanks you ! Not only the trees...you did well by the tree. Consider how long you have cared for this trees...and persevered in creating special trees from them...and sharing your knowledge so freely.

 

[Vance Wood]

Yes I can not keep mugos or JWP, though I have some...just trying to see how long they will last with extra care,
Thanks you ! Not only the trees...you did well by the tree. Consider how long you have cared for this trees...and persevered in creating special trees from them...and sharing your knowledge so freely.

It's easy to press the thank you button but nothing says thank you like writting it out. THANK YOU

 

[october]

I wonder what that person would tell you about Mugo Pine? I treat Scots just like I do Mugo and they react in basically the same way. I was not aware that Scots Pine was used extensively in Japan to the point that many of their "Masters" have extensive experience with the tree? He may be right I am after all just an old fat Gijing (sp?) that thinks he knows something about bonsai,--- seriously. I can only tell you or anyone else, things from my experience.

However there are, or were, multitudes of sources saying that Mugos are difficult to repot and that they die easily and that you cannot grow them here--where ever here might be. I have found that most of what people have been saying about Mugos and Scots Pines is rubbish. Most of the people that tell you these things don't have any of the trees themselves.

Understanding that the problem they have, cannot possibly be related to the fact that they are cultivating the tree wrong, they after all know every thing. The logical conclusion is that no one can grow these trees for long. What is really being said is I can't grow one therefore no one can. Mugos and Scots Pines are just novelties and should not be a subject for serious bonsaiist. You should after al,l grow Japanese Black Pine and Japanese White Pine and if you are really adventerous; Japanese Red Pine. These are, and I think everyone who is anyone in bonsai will agree, these are the only Pine trees acceptable for bonsai culture.

Does this not sound familiar if not funny, ---and I don't mean funny Ha Ha,---I mean funny peculiar, that there are still people selling this misinformation? I know that you might sit back and say: "Here he goes again, we've heard all of this stuff before." But; I think that both the Scots and the Mugo are superior trees for bonsai even if it means I make enemies. Even if it means what I tell you, or anyone who listens, that the play book of Bonsai with Two Needle Pines is wrong when it tries to link all two needle Pines together in the same category and insists that they be treated the same as Japanese Black Pine. The only reason that you have a sub culture that deals with White Pines is because it is such a beautiful tree and has become so popular that a set of rules and practices had to evolve to allow the "Five Needle Pine". But the funny (peculiar) thing is when a lot of these Two-Needle-Pine experts are cornered into answering questions about the Mugo or Scots Pine they do what???? wait for it?????? They know the two trees are different so they have to default to something they already know (opposed to learning something new) which is Five Needle Pine culture.

Hi Vance, I am always in agreement with everything you say. Your advice has been proven so many times over. Also, your predictions about tree's futures almost always come true. You are definitely one of the most credible sources.

As far as our original discussion. Upon purchasing this tree, I asked some information at the nursery. There is a young artist that has been working at the nursery. He has been here for a few years. He worked and studied in Japan, his work is top notch. His information was to not cut/decandle. He said pinch. He said that scots pine were not really treated like a black or a white pine.

Just so we are clear, you are saying that you do and can decandle a scots pine as you would a black pine? I am not talking about any other steps, just the action of cutting off the candles, then it will back bud? Thank you in advance.

Rob

 

[Vance Wood]

Hi Vance, I am always in agreement with everything you say. Your advice has been proven so many times over. Also, your predictions about tree's futures almost always come true. You are definitely one of the most credible sources.

As far as our original discussion. Upon purchasing this tree, I asked some information at the nursery. There is a young artist that has been working at the nursery. He has been here for a few years. He worked and studied in Japan, his work is top notch. His information was to not cut/decandle. He said pinch. He said that scots pine were not really treated like a black or a white pine.

Just so we are clear, you are saying that you do and can decandle a scots pine as you would a black pine? I am not talking about any other steps, just the action of cutting off the candles, then it will back bud? Thank you in advance.

Rob

Yes you can decandle like a Black Pine but; you need to do it no earlier than Mid July. It wont back bud like a BP it will produce a bunch of new buds that wont grow till next spring. The idea in decandleing a JBP is to produce a second flush of growth aka make it grow a second time in one year. Scots might do that but no consistantly enough to depend on the process for anything more than new buds for next year.

Let me see if I can put this more simply: JBP Japanese Black Pine: The most aggressive grower of all the two needle Pines. Cut off all of the candles in early summer (July 4) and the tree will put out new buds then the new buds will grow and the tree will put on a second flush of growth. Scots Pine: Not quite as vigorous. Cut off all of the candles in early summer (July 4) and the tree will put out new buds a lot of new buds. These buds will not grow this year they will grow next spring. I don't know how I can explain this any more clearly.

 

[october]

Yes you can decandle like a Black Pine but; you need to do it no earlier than Mid July. It wont back bud like a BP it will produce a bunch of new buds that wont grow till next spring. The idea in decandleing a JBP is to produce a second flush of growth aka make it grow a second time in one year. Scots might do that but no consistantly enough to depend on the process for anything more than new buds for next year.

Thanks for the clarification Vance. It is much appreciated.

Rob