A magnificent specimen tree for discussion

[october]

hmmmmm I am unsure as if reducing it would be a good idea. I do like the virt, but not enough to make the decision whether or not to reduce. Also, in real lfe, it might be incredibly difficult to reduce it and have it still look balanced.

Attila... I agree with you that reducing this tree may take away the visual impact. Right now..there are many pads that are all cooperating and working together to form a magnificent visual effect. To reduce it, would almost make it see like a more average bonsai. I mean average as in specimen average..so still being an incredble tree. With the current height, it makes it different, a bit out of the norm specimen tree.

Irene, I enjoyed the video very much. I have seen most of his videos, but I don't think I saw that one. Thanks for the link

Rob

 

[Smoke]

hmmmmm
To reduce it, would almost make it see like a more average bonsai. I mean average as in specimen average..so still being an incredble tree.

Rob

I was wondering how many posts after the virt it would take to condemn the tree to cookie cutter statice.

13, not bad.

 

[october]

lol.....Let's Keep the phrase "cookie cutter" more in reference to pines... If it get's mainstream with junipers... Next it's cypress, azaleas, elms and who knows what else...

I actually, like both versions of the tree, the shorter and the current state.. It would be better if I saw the tree live and could make an assessment if the tree could pull it off.

Actually, the whole cookie cutter thing doesn't necessarilly bother me... I love a good pine that is the strict cookie cutter example..However, I think that I like the out of the ordinary pines.. The literati or the uncoomonly shaped ones maybe more...

Victrinia.. If you read this ...you are not seeing things...lol... Thats right, I, many times, love a good non traditional pine...

Rob

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

I was wondering how many posts after the virt it would take to condemn the tree to cookie cutter statice.

13, not bad.

And here I was thinking it was a more remarkable tree... cookie cutter indeed.

But you are right... 13 is not bad at all...lol

V

 

[Smoke]

lol.....Let's Keep the phrase "cookie cutter" more in reference to pines... If it get's mainstream with junipers... Next it's cypress, azaleas, elms and who knows what else...

I actually, like both versions of the tree, the shorter and the current state.. It would be better if I saw the tree live and could make an assessment if the tree could pull it off.

Actually, the whole cookie cutter thing doesn't necessarilly bother me... I love a good pine that is the strict cookie cutter example..However, I think that I like the out of the ordinary pines.. The literati or the uncoomonly shaped ones maybe more...

Victrinia.. If you read this ...you are not seeing things...lol... Thats right, I, many times, love a good non traditional pine...

Rob

Cookie cutter "is" already mainstream and it has become a deraugatory term to cast on a bonsai that is well groomed but simplistic in form.

Seeing the tree for a better assessment on the tree "pulling it off" is a pipe dream. None of us are ever going to get to see this tree much less have an opportunity to work on it. So what we "do" with it is just a "what if it fell in front of me" kind of thing. I mean If I'm going to dream, dream big whether its possible or not. The bottom line is....was there an improvement? For me there was. For others maybe not so much. The exercise is more about what could we improve rather than "can it actually be done". If its great just the way it is thats good too. I thought it could be better by simplifying it. As it is...well it's too busy for me.


Think of it like an oil well at the bottom of the ocean. No one can dive down there to see what is going on so all we can do is draw pictures of the best scenario and let the robots do the work. What are we up to???? Scenario no. 10 I think. Lets hear it for best laid drawings.


al

 

[greerhw]

Cookie cutter "is" already mainstream and it has become a deraugatory term to cast on a bonsai that is well groomed but simplistic in form.

Seeing the tree for a better assessment on the tree "pulling it off" is a pipe dream. None of us are ever going to get to see this tree much less have an opportunity to work on it. So what we "do" with it is just a "what if it fell in front of me" kind of thing. I mean If I'm going to dream, dream big whether its possible or not. The bottom line is....was there an improvement? For me there was. For others maybe not so much. The exercise is more about what could we improve rather than "can it actually be done". If its great just the way it is thats good too. I thought it could be better by simplifying it. As it is...well it's too busy for me.


Think of it like an oil well at the bottom of the ocean. No one can dive down there to see what is going on so all we can do is draw pictures of the best scenario and let the robots do the work. What are we up to???? Scenario no. 10 I think. Lets hear it for best laid drawings.


al

Cookie cutter my arse, there are no two trees identical, and if they are similar, what the hell difference !!

keep it green,
Harry

 

[greerhw]

V, think Beach Boys, or are you that young. Little Duece Coup. Harry knows, I did it for his referance to lake pipes and chopped cars, ala the Beach Boys. Sorry for the senior moment.

It was probably the best time in American history to grow up !!!!!!

keep it green,
Harry

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

V, think Beach Boys, or are you that young. Little Duece Coup. Harry knows, I did it for his referance to lake pipes and chopped cars, ala the Beach Boys. Sorry for the senior moment.

I'm 38... so I might be a little young? I know I've heard the song... so that may have to be good enough...lol

V

 

[Smoke]

Cookie cutter my arse, there are no two trees identical, and if they are similar, what the hell difference !!

keep it green,
Harry

Come on Harry all your trees are cookie cutter. Marco makes em just like the big boys in Japan. The Japanese magazines are chock full of pines and junipers styled just like yours.

Beautiful yes...but simple.

 

[greerhw]

Come on Harry all your trees are cookie cutter. Marco makes em just like the big boys in Japan. The Japanese magazines are chock full of pines and junipers styled just like yours.

Beautiful yes...but simple.

Simple maybe, but coveted, I suspect more so than American sticks, to each his own, I'm glad you enjoy the same hobby as I do, we just look at it from a different prespective. Neither better than the other.

keep it green,
Harry

 

[Dwight]

And here I thought simplicity was a Japanese ( therefore bonsai ) ideal. Simple doesn't mean not beautiful , not interesting ,, not artistic , not imaginative..it often means clean , not cluttered, etc. Kimura will never be accused of simple anything and some of his trees are IMHO , down right confusing if not ugly. I was reading through some old Bonsai Todays last night and came across a " traditional " juniper by Kimura and it was fantastic.

Sooooooo , simple can be good , very good. Harry and I remember the Hirihata Merc and it screamed simple but may be the most beautiful custom car ever built....

OH AND i LOVE THIS TREE.....BOTH VERSIONS

 

[greerhw]

And here I thought simplicity was a Japanese ( therefore bonsai ) ideal. Simple doesn't mean not beautiful , not interesting ,, not artistic , not imaginative..it often means clean , not cluttered, etc. Kimura will never be accused of simple anything and some of his trees are IMHO , down right confusing if not ugly. I was reading through some old Bonsai Todays last night and came across a " traditional " juniper by Kimura and it was fantastic.

Sooooooo , simple can be good , very good. Harry and I remember the Hirihata Merc and it screamed simple but may be the most beautiful custom car ever built....

OH AND i LOVE THIS TREE.....BOTH VERSIONS

That Mercury was why my first car was a 51 Mercury, spent ever dime I could get my hands on, I spent on it, but I had to save a dollar for gas........

Check out The Karaoke Bar !!

keep it green,
Harry

 

[Dwight]

I hope you did a better job on the chassis thah George did Harry. That thing was scarry. Good thing we don't drive bonsai.

 

[october]

Hi Al, I reliaze that the term "cookie cutter" is applied to other species besides pine. However, it seems mostly applied to pines.. Probably because junipers although many might be similar, they are not as similar as the standard informal upright black or japanese white pine.

some of his trees are IMHO, down right confusing if not ugly.

Wow..strong words Dwight...Oddly enough, I can, in some way, see your point. Kimura has been one of my inspirations for a while now...but I think I can understand your view pioint simply from also studying John Naka's teachings.. His trees seem much more natural and not as rigid...

I remember looking at pics of his trees and just being in awe at the simplicity and beauty of them..Actually, I had asked my teacher a while ago when and if there was a turning point in bonsai from Naka's style to now.. It just seems that bonsai is perfect today.. every single thing on a tree is perfect. If you study Naka's books and teachings.. He has bonsai where he shows you pics of what they would look like in nature. Also, he does the opposite, what a tree in nature would look like as a bonsai..I do not think that these comparisons could not be done with some other's work.. I am not taking sides on even giving an opinion.. I love all of it, each master's work.. Kimura, Naka, Suzuki all of it....

Rob