Bonsai Theft Protection

[Mikecheck123]

Fencing, cameras, dogs, and guns. In that case, this might qualify for the “most recent bonsai purchase” thread.
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Unfortunately, even in Alabama killing someone who is actively stealing a very valuable bonsai tree is still murder.

 

[Vance Wood]

Make your trees so big and heavy that no one, without the aid of a crane, can lift one or make them so trashy and ugly that no self respecting crook would try and take one--or both.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Unfortunately, even in Alabama killing someone who is actively stealing a very valuable bonsai tree is still murder.

You’re making several bad assumptions, and would never be retained as my lawyer.

 

[vp999]

For instance, this interview with YNT... a 'neighborhood group' from green bay..

One of these guys was a friend/business associate of mine.. and I knew, by acquaintance, two others in the video. This is back when I lived in East Side Green Bay..

Aaanyways.. multiple times during the interview (fairly early) you hear gunshots (and more times throughout) .. and the guys getting interviewed are casual and don't even react...

Mind you, this is gunshots, roughly 5 blocks from Downtown Green Bay.... 105,000 people(ish)...

And it's just commonplace enough that it becomes background noise to the residents.

U sure it wasn't fireworks from the Packers game ?

 

[HorseloverFat]

U sure it wasn't fireworks from the Packers game ?

That's a WAY different neighborhood... cross a bridge n'all that... Lambeau Field is actually pretty close to the Oneida Res...

Where THAT (East Side neighborhood) is... is by all the hospitals, free clinics, meat packing plants and "Hispanic commercial areas". Oh and lots and LOTS of slum-esque housing... and HUDs... about 70/30.

You can really SMELL the Liberty.

 

[Mikecheck123]

You’re making several bad assumptions, and would never be retained as my lawyer.

I'm just saying make sure the force is proportional.

If you have a $500 tree, aim for the big toe.

If it's a $5000 tree, maybe the knee cap is fine.

 

[Coppersdad]

Make your trees so big and heavy that no one, without the aid of a crane, can lift one or make them so trashy and ugly that no self respecting crook would try and take one--or both.

You've just described all my trees. So, I guess I have no more need to worry.

 

[HorseloverFat]

I'm just saying make sure the force is proportional.

If you have a $500 tree, aim for the big toe.

If it's a $5000 tree, maybe the knee cap is fine.

I like this sentiment.

However.. the REALITY is much different. You don't start "being able to think clearly" in that situation, RIGHT away!

Sooo you'd have to have been in several gunfights/ or been in armed confrontations to actively assess, not only your aim, but even if you'd "pull"... people really surprise themselves WHEN IT MATTERS.

I'll bet MOST people who speak like they would "shoot a person in this situation"...

Would realistically just "fill their pants or cry" when presented the business end of a weapon...

Shooting at people isn't "cool" or "macho"... EITHER end.. TRUST ME.

I think it's funny that people act, though.

Most of the time.. it's just soiled pants and sobbing, though!

This conversation, now, Reminds me of this song.

 

[Coppersdad]

I like this sentiment.

However.. the REALITY is much different. You don't start "being able to think clearly" in that situation, RIGHT away!

Sooo you'd have to have been in several gunfights/ or been in armed confrontations to actively assess, not only your aim, but even if you'd "pull"... people really surprise themselves WHEN IT MATTERS.

I'll bet MOST people who speak like they would "shoot a person in this situation"...

Would realistically just "fill their pants or cry" when presented the business end of a weapon...

Shooting at people isn't "cool" or "macho"... EITHER end.. TRUST ME.

I think it's funny that people act, though.

Most of the time.. it's just soiled pants and sobbing, though!

This conversation, now, Reminds me of this song.

Real life is NOT even close to the movies people. Should you take a life or even injure someone, your life will change forever and NOT in a good way. You won't like it.
I have no possession worth that experience.

 

[HorseloverFat]

I have no possession worth that experience.

Nor I.

 

[Mikecheck123]

Real life is NOT even close to the movies people. Should you take a life or even injure someone, your life will change forever and NOT in a good way. You won't like it.
I have no possession worth that experience.

My sarcasm is sometimes hard to detect.

Obviously shooting over a tree is idiotic. Risking prison time for a plant is unwise. (No sarcasm!)

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

My sarcasm is sometimes hard to detect.

Obviously shooting over a tree is idiotic. Risking prison time for a plant is unwise. (No sarcasm!)

My sarcasm may have been missed too. Obviously violence should be a last resort, and not over “stuff”.
But it isn’t a chicken or egg deal. The first question is this: is stealing something that isn’t yours worth risking your life for?
The answer is no, and that keeps you out of a potentially dangerous situation. That is personal responsibility, and is woefully lacking today.

 

[Kadebe]

I'm just saying make sure the force is proportional.

If you have a $500 tree, aim for the big toe.

If it's a $5000 tree, maybe the knee cap is fine.

From a principled standpoint, I do not agree with this.
Theft = theft... remains the same no matter how big the damage, it remains the same criminal action.

Only if a theft is committed to survive, then you can have a moral reason for not approaching this the same as ordinary theft

 

[Coppersdad]

My sarcasm may have been missed too. Obviously violence should be a last resort, and not over “stuff”.
But it isn’t a chicken or egg deal. The first question is this: is stealing something that isn’t yours worth risking your life for?
The answer is no, and that keeps you out of a potentially dangerous situation. That is personal responsibility, and is woefully lacking today.

Brian, I once had a dear fishing buddy who lived in Alaska. His homestead outbuildings consisted of open sheds, much like large carports. He kept all his "toys" in these sheds, campers, drift boats, power boats, quad runners and snowmobiles. I once asked him if he was ever concerned about theft. He said it had happened a time or two. Then he said, "I figured they needed it more than me."
Now, this was a retired guy who spent his free time fishing and freezing both fish and moose to donate to his church's food bank. Among all the life lessons I've ever learned, his example was one of the best.

 

[HorseloverFat]

From a principled standpoint, I do not agree with this.
Theft = theft... remains the same no matter how big the damage, it remains the same criminal action.

Only if a theft is committed to survive, then you can have a moral reason for not approaching this the same as ordinary theft

Moral-wise... ABSOLUTELY.

Breaching that ethical
"thresh-hold" internally, is the FIRST, and ONLY defining moment for the CRIME'S perspective

We, at least here, legally differentiate between monetary values, for the PROSECUTION'S sake... So "Bernie Madoffs" don't get the same shoplifting ticket That A kid stealing a Snickers does.

Both are theft..

But our RESPONSE should be different..

But never lead or steel violence.

Immediate Threats on your LIFE, FAMILY or HOME.. would, obviously be handled differently.

Me must pretec me sheltah.

A few times dealing with "in your face weapon violence".. takes the allure out of that facade.. and 'smooths out' those tough guys real quick.

 

[Kadebe]

Moral-wise... ABSOLUTELY.

Breaching that ethical
"thresh-hold" internally, is the FIRST, and ONLY defining moment for the CRIME'S perspective

We, at least here, legally differentiate between monetary values, for the PROSECUTION'S sake... So "Bernie Madoffs" don't get the same shoplifting ticket That A kid stealing a Snickers does.

Here the same

Both are theft..

But our RESPONSE should be different..

That's where we teach youth that a "little" theft is not that important... so not a serious crime.
That's why here in Belgium they call it "petty crime". Means also ... the paperwork of the police is taking longer t

police paperwork takes longer than incarceration.... there are those here who were arrested three times in 1 night for those "petty criminal offences".
So we teach everyone that it's not all that bad... so you just get a lot more of those "petty crimes" .... no real punishments are given anymore anyway.

To change that mindset, I think there is only one option... "zero tolerance"

 

[HorseloverFat]

Here the same

That's where we teach youth that a "little" theft is not that important... so not a serious crime.
That's why here in Belgium they call it "petty crime". Means also ... the paperwork of the police is taking longer t

police paperwork takes longer than incarceration.... there are those here who were arrested three times in 1 night for those "petty criminal offences".
So we teach everyone that it's not all that bad... so you just get a lot more of those "petty crimes" .... no real punishments are given anymore anyway.

To change that mindset, I think there is only one option... "zero tolerance"

Yes. I agree with you.

But when speaking of youth.. that's then expecting SOCIETY to instill then with morals.. that should be intrinsic or learned at home.. So it will get tricky. The situations would need to be dealt with on an individual level.

Because such punishment systems as you describe DO exist..

Iraq/Iran comes to mind.

And I, personally, feel that to be a little extreme..

However, shoplifting fines here... end up being converted, especially if the person is younger, into probation... DOC probation.. which... isn't... that....pleasant. So the 'papwork' is more focused on rehabilitation and education. And ends up FEELING like a pretty heavy punishment.,. AAAND stays on your record for 5-7 years.

But better that having a hand severed.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Our smallest Shoplifting charge.

Is this MORE severe than the punishment for petty crimes in your area? (honest question, I'm enjoying this discussion)