Jabuticaba (brazilian grapetree) decline and restoration

[Insect]

Hi, first post here.
My Jabuticaba was 'new' from Brussels as of 1/2019. It was good for a month. I went on 10 day trip, (dogsitter watering every three days), it got stiff falling leaves. I found the PH to be around 7, then I used mix of lime juice, vinegar, (diluted), and organic dust from the store to lower PH. Brief improvement, then fail again. Tonight I repotted with two layers of very light fertilizer, and moderate Holly Tone acidifier, in good bonsai soil. I'll have another post on the it Cypress that declined when I went on same trip, trees miss me or something?!?

Questions:
Do electronic 3 scale PH meters work well? Mine seems to show 7 in every soil unless I like dip it in pure vinegar, it is new and clean. I suspect it's a bit lousy.
Based on photos below, any ideas on the roots of my plant? It was tangled, not really rotten, most firm roots downward, less radial. I trimmed to more radial form.
I do 14h a day under gro light, 1500lux scale, is that reasonable (I do timer 7h in morning, 2h off, 7h in evening matched to my reptile's times)?
Since it'san acid loving plant, and my lousy PH scale is reading 7, is my acid regime prudent?
Any thoughts on the likelihood of survival based on what is seen here?



Above, my tree after service tonight: I toothbrushed the trunk, it had the peely brown that is normal



Above: Upon removal with old soil.




Above: After grooming the roots, I did rinse them in water, not sure if that is prudent?

 

[Silentrunning]

I am just a rookie in the bonsai world, but let me give you a bit of advice. If you are not sure what to do - ask questions FIRST. It does no good to seek guidance after you have uprooted the tree and changed its environment. A lot of people on here are going to ignore your request for help when they see what you have already done.

 

[coh]

How much did you pay for that pH meter? If it's something you picked up for like $10 or $15 from Lowes or Home Depot, it's pretty much useless.

Jaboticaba doesn't seem to need a particularly acid environment. I've had one for about 6 years and it gets regular water and fertilizer.

BTW, bonsai can't really be watered using an "every 3 days" approach. They need water when they need water, which could well be every day if they are growing,
under strong lights, etc.

 

[0soyoung]

I think your dog sitter didn't water every three days. Tree desiccated, sitter then noticed, then watered the day before you returned.

The primary symptom of the soil having too high a pH is leaf discoloration, chlorosis, in particular. I don't really see this in your pix.
If your water supply is alkaline, maybe use something like Miracid or treat your water.

 

[Colorado]

Likelihood of survival is very low. I wouldn’t recommend bare-rooting a tree that is obviously tremendously stressed. Don’t feel too bad, most of us have all learned this the hard way! The good news is that you can get another and try again

 

[leatherback]

As far as I know, Jabuticaba is a south american rainforest national. Make sure you get @Clicio , our native Brazilian to chime in.

The plant is not dead, the trunk shows plenty of spunk. So get it to come back to you. As these come from that sticky humid, hot country, I would do a few things:

- Stop messing with the plant. Plants respond on timeschales of weeks in order to improve (Yet may show displeasure in hours or days)
- NEVER fertilize a plant that is without foliage & sickly
- PH meters do not work to get the PH of a soil. It is not a matter of chucking 2 electrode in the soil. As said before, the plant will show a clear patters if you have a PH problem. You do not.

- Take a large transparent bag. Without getting the soil overly wet, ensure the bag is full of moist air, e.g. by spraying water in it.
- Close the bag. Keep the inside moist, but avoid soaking the soil, which should be just moist; The roots are struggling if I judge the issue right
- Put it in a very warm bright spot. Make sure the sun never sits on it for a long time as the bag will heat up very fast. Ideally with bottom heat
- Wait, open the bag every day for half an hour to reduce fungus risk
- In 2 weeks or so you should see buds starting to push

 

[JoeH]

Likelihood of survival is very low. I wouldn’t recommend bare-rooting a tree that is obviously tremendously stressed. Don’t feel too bad, most of us have all learned this the hard way! The good news is that you can get another and try again

I don't get why folks feel the need to stress out a plant that is already stressed. Its not like the ER where a little rash attention will help a neglected tree. The OP would have been better off letting it be and see if it responds and shows signs of recovery first.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

The pH of your soil should be measured either by the water you give, or the water that runs out of the pot. Measuring in the soil wouldn't do much good, there's ion exchange taking place in there.

PH probes can be bought pretty cheap, but there are things that need to be considered:
A good pH probe will need calibration on every single use. This means a package should include calibration buffers. These are usually 4.01 and 7.00. If they are not included, don't buy it.
A good pH probe needs to be stored in saturated KCl solution. This allows the probe to suck up all the ions it lost during measurements. It expands the life of a probe with a few thousand percents. And it stabilizes your measurements.
A good pH probe always needs a two (or three!) point calibration.
A good pH probe responds to 0.01 pH scale differences. That means heating/cooling a solution with just a few degrees C, will show a different output value.

If these four points aren't met, your readings cannot be trusted because they're not accurate. It's a chemical process, people have been trying to improve it for over 20 years now, but even pharmaceutical companies that have trillions to spend, still stick with good old KCl probes. They just work. Pen models of probes like these can be bought for +/- 25 USD, usually in the pool-department. They don't last as long as a 200+ USD glass probe, but they'll do just fine.
And.. There's always litmuss strips, that would cost you a dollar or two for 100 strips. They are not very accurate, but they work just fine for rounded off values.. And you can work with the smallest volumes of water; a drop would suffice.

A tip from a cheapskate friend of mine: borrow a good probe and get a few bottles of the same brand of vinegar (or HCl, H2SO4, HNO3) and make 20 solutions that you measure. Take the average amount of acid you need to add to a fixed amount of water to get to your desired pH. Write this down. As long as you buy the same brand with the same concentration of acids, you could do without a pH probe because you know for certain that volume X of the acid will give you the desired pH.
We found the amount of acetic acid in kitchen vinegar -household/cleaning vinegar not so much - to be pretty stable as long as it's from the same brand. So based on our measurements, we need 86mL of vinegar per 2 litres of tap water to reach pH 6.50. Now that we know this based on 5 bottles measured 4 times each, we don't need the probe anymore.
We also found that between brands, the acetic acid concentration varies. This means we have to stick with one brand to get a stable output. And repeat the measurements every 6 months to see if it's still correct.

 

[Clicio]

As far as I know, Jabuticaba is a south american rainforest national.

Yes, and as in nature they occur in wet lowlands close to the tropical rivers, they like wet feet. One should never ever let it dry, as it seems it was the OP case.
@leatherback suggestion of the clear plastic bag to increase humidity could save it, I have used that technique on hopeless trees with success.

 

[Insect]

Thanks for the responses. So to answer a few questions:
Water: is from my well / pond. It's flowing spring water, that I temperature stabilize in the home, I never use the softened well water (salts).
Temp: These plants are above my heated reptile, so room temp +8 degrees.
PH meter: It is a cheap one, pretty bad I see.
Humidity: my home is very dry in winter, Virginia. I mist water on plants 2x a day.
Recovery timeline: I let it stay in my care for 30 days before doing all this too it. With the understanding that nothing was happening, and opportunity of time I repotted. However last week when it started sprouting again, I had given a heavy dose of on acidifier, then it stopped. Then repot on 3-9-19

I am still understanding the delicate balance of watering, too much vs too little, no doubt I am new to this and learning.

Today I am taking leatherback's advice and making a clear plastic greenhouse for it. Will put plastic on this frame today. (Cypress in beckground went thru the same decline/timeframe)

Again thanks again!