Where do you want to see a big PBE/Nationals level show?

[Shogun610]

This is pretty limiting, in that we need to start thinking about multi-generational trees. If all work must be by the one submitting the tree, the quality is seriously limited. It would, more importantly, kill the bonsai economy.

It’s just for one show where that would have the rules… How is that killing the bonsai economy, there plenty of ways minus one show not ave a pro prep or style your tree… if you can still have national and PBE and keep it the way it is.

 

[Shogun610]

This is pretty limiting, in that we need to start thinking about multi-generational trees. If all work must be by the one submitting the tree, the quality is seriously limited. It would, more importantly, kill the bonsai economy.

And I don’t think the quality would be limited if you were a professional submitting your own tree or if you were highly skilled it would be filtered like the current shows are to make sure the quality is there . Taikan-Ten does this

 

[Wood]

I don't know any artists that make art for a particular audience. They make the art that's in themselves.

"Good artists borrow, great artists steal"

 

[BrianBay9]

This is a bit of tired trope. You are right that art comes from a deeper place in our “soul” or “inner self” or whatever you wanna call it but I know plenty of artists who make art for a particular market. Happens all the time. The biggest disservice art schools provide is a lack of branding and self awareness in the fact, that making a livable wage as an artist is terribly difficult. The “do it for the love” artist is often, certainly not always, but often times one that doesn’t need the income there art brings to make a living. I’m def tired of this idea that if you are catering to a market or making art for a particular audience for business decisions it is not true art.

I’m taking liberties with your statement also Brian. Certainly not saying that’s what you’re implying here, just making a general statement based on a bit of what you said. I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

Can't say I know any artists that are commercially successful, nor really try to be. Maybe all I know are hobbiests and don't count as artists unless they can support themselves by their art?

 

[BrianBay9]

you totally miss the point...its about what would engage the audience...

Wouldn't be the first time I missed the point.

 

[Pitoon]

As a vendor that travels long distances alone. My major gripe is food availability at the venue. I usually bring some snacks, but snacks can only get you so far in a day before you need a meal. I can leave my table for a few minutes, but leaving my table at PBE and having to wait over 30mins for a sausage sandwich is unacceptable.

Organizers of the shows really need to think about the vendors and consider this. Have food available whether it's food trucks or catering service. And if food is available on site vendors should have a priority lane to get in and out as quickly as possible. I don't mind if I have to pay a little extra to get a warm meal.

 

[River's Edge]

As a vendor that travels long distances alone. My major gripe is food availability at the venue. I usually bring some snacks, but snacks can only get you so far in a day before you need a meal. I can leave my table for a few minutes, but leaving my table at PBE and having to wait over 30mins for a sausage sandwich is unacceptable.

Organizers of the shows really need to think about the vendors and consider this. Have food available whether it's food trucks or catering service. And if food is available on site vendors should have a priority lane to get in and out as quickly as possible. I don't mind if I have to pay a little extra to get a warm meal.

I like the combination of a food truck/ kiosk or nearby take out option, plus a volunteer that will take your oder pick up and deliver to the vendor. I believe it is the vendors that make the show and drive the attendance just as much as the displays if not more so! A separate room for a quiet break or meal time would be beneficial for those who feel they can leave their vendor area for a bit with family coworkers or friends!
Some additional cost and organizational issue involved with this. Food in the vending areas, movement in and out of the show or display area, separation of areas and security to avoid issues. Lots of things to balance!

 

[NaoTK]

Bonsai Central had a hospitality room. Made the show so much better for volunteers and vendors. Just add $10 to the table cost and have someone go to costco. I'm not going to confirm nor deny that beer was there.

 

[River's Edge]

Bonsai Central had a hospitality room. Made the show so much better for volunteers and vendors. Just add $10 to the table cost and have someone go to costco. I'm not going to confirm nor deny that beer was there.

Not sure the organizers would consider $10 to be an appropriate amount to cover the beer? Must be a generational difference in perspective or consumption.

 

[NaoTK]

Not sure the organizers would consider $10 to be an appropriate amount to cover the beer? Must be a generational difference in perspective or consumption.

 

[Hartinez]

Heres my experience being a vendor at high level art fairs and markets. Ultimately food was our responsibility. Some places will provide a voucher for a free drink or have some provided snacks before the show starts, but I have never had them bend over backwards for me. They never had a room to go hang out in, nothing like that. The shows I’m doing also are making the organizer significant cash flow, so much so that it’s there living. So you would think they could provide something, but they done. I’ve done art fairs in Denver, Boulder, LA, Phoenix, and all over New Mexico, with booth fees as high as $600.

Jonas and Eric are not making money on this so I don’t necessarily expect them to have that side of the show figured out. With that said though, all of the events I did always had at least one or two food trucks available for the vendors to order from. But it was always on us to get it. They had a roaming worker who would stand at your booth while you went and ordered but that was about it. Needless to say, I usually always had a cooler with snacks and what not.

As a patron of this show. Food was relatively easy to procure. There were several breweries and small restaurants within a 10 min walk of the venue. That does not do much for the vendors, but there was def food near by.

 

[Paradox]

People repeatedly mentioned food.
Food trucks are not the answer because lines end up being long and the food quality is variable, a lot of the time sub par.

MABS has their shows at a large hotel and they arrange for lunch on Saturday as part of your registration fee. The food is always good.

As for location. Others mentioned the size of the U.S. and the trouble with bringing trees to and from if you're not driving. It's impossible to find one spot that is good for everyone. For me, anywhere longer than 10 hours driving is too far for the reasons stated.

Also as stated, you're not going to see a huge attendance. The hobby is very niche.

 

[Carol 83]

Bonsai Central had a hospitality room.

I'm not going to confirm nor deny that beer was there.

The Midwest understands what's important. BTW, it was a pleasure meeting you there.

 

[Sansokuu]

Hmm….I have to say, I do not really understand the desire to “break away” from the Japanese model and make something “uniquely American”, or whatever. I think we should be leaning in MORE to the traditional model, not trying to break away from it.

I am pretty sure that the folks in Japan know a thing or two about good bonsai…..

Just my 2 cents.

I agree with this personally - and I agree with the other statement as well. PBE embraces wild modern design which is the ‘american’ take. I also feel like traditional bonsai does need some innovation now and then. Certainly there must be more colors other than red and yellow in a shohin display that could make it sing for example.

Japanese culture and all the other asian cultures that produce fantastic bonsai (teopical countries like Taiwan for example) has so much nuance and rich history to it, having *more* of it I think would bring in people interested in not just bonsai but also beyond. Scrolls are not just scrolls, every structural and aesthetic choice made in creating a scroll has a purpose, which is one reason why I’m not just painting and assembling scrolls willy nilly without knowing the why of it. The same goes with why you can’t just design ‘any’ bonsai pot. There is a lot of balance to to bonsai pot design, and you would be surprised at how much measurement adjusting Nao has to do to to a proposed pot design from a professional to make it really work.

 

[Sansokuu]

This is a bit of tired trope. You are right that art comes from a deeper place in our “soul” or “inner self” or whatever you wanna call it but I know plenty of artists who make art for a particular market. Happens all the time. The biggest disservice art schools provide is a lack of branding and self awareness in the fact, that making a livable wage as an artist is terribly difficult. The “do it for the love” artist is often, certainly not always, but often times one that doesn’t need the income there art brings to make a living. I’m def tired of this idea that if you are catering to a market or making art for a particular audience for business decisions it is not true art.

I’m taking liberties with your statement also Brian. Certainly not saying that’s what you’re implying here, just making a general statement based on a bit of what you said. I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

As an “artist” I have to add my two cents. Yes it might seem like a trope, but it is very much true. In my however many decades of selling art for a living, I have observed that artists that ‘attempt to make stuff that sells’ really lack something that makes their work appealing. But when the art comes from deep interest, passion, the “love” of it, people are far more likely to be gravitated towards it because it embodies the personality and that love from the artist. That is when the marketing of the art/product happens to coincide with the artist doing what they love.

I was/am very burnt out when it comes to the land of two dimensional work. It was through handbuilding and pottery/ceramics that I finally started making stuff for myself that I personally liked. This painting on pots business is my slow return to two dimensional work.

 

[Hartinez]

As an “artist” I have to add my two cents. Yes it might seem like a trope, but it is very much true. In my however many decades of selling art for a living, I have observed that artists that ‘attempt to make stuff that sells’ really lack something that makes their work appealing. But when the art comes from deep interest, passion, the “love” of it, people are far more likely to be gravitated towards it because it embodies the personality and that love from the artist. That is when the marketing of the art/product happens to coincide with the artist doing what they love.

I was/am very burnt out when it comes to the land of two dimensional work. It was through handbuilding and pottery/ceramics that I finally started making stuff for myself that I personally liked. This painting on pots business is my slow return to two dimensional work.

All fair points for sure.

I do though think it’s a given that work that comes from a far more meaningful place can and will resonate more with people. I’m just pushing back on the idea that the two are mutually exclusive.

Because someone is business minded and working towards providing a single art form for a specific group does not mean that they can’t be passionate and soulful about their work. Art school teaches us how to make and execute in our chosen artistic style, but doesn’t teach us how to sell that work in a meaningful way. To me that’s unfortunate.

It makes me think about the term “selling out” all the time. So EnVogue in the 90s to not sell out. I was in that camp as a teen and hated when my favorite hip hop groups or artists advertised with big brands. But as a 41 year old with a family of 5 who was the primary bread winner for 5 years as a self employed artist, I would have sold out a million times over if it meant continuing the work I was passionate about for a more secure day to day, week to week, month to month for my family.

 

[Sansokuu]

As a vendor that travels long distances alone. My major gripe is food availability at the venue. I usually bring some snacks, but snacks can only get you so far in a day before you need a meal. I can leave my table for a few minutes, but leaving my table at PBE and having to wait over 30mins for a sausage sandwich is unacceptable.

Organizers of the shows really need to think about the vendors and consider this. Have food available whether it's food trucks or catering service. And if food is available on site vendors should have a priority lane to get in and out as quickly as possible. I don't mind if I have to pay a little extra to get a warm meal.

Some nerd conventions I have been to who were especially hospitable would have a buffet breakfast (they were based out of hotels). For lunch we filled out a form and they brought us sandwiches. I had asked Jonas and Eric if we could table next to you, we’d have been happy to watch your table for you or include you on our lunch runs . I know how hard it is to do shows solo, I used to do it all the time. Don’t know how I would have done it without the occasional friend popping by to hold down the fort just so I could use the bathroom.

Next show we got you @Pitoon !!

 

[John7429]

Yes, I was disappointed in the Rendezvous last year. The shohin meeting in Santa Nella is good.

What disappointed you?

 

[John7429]

Bonsai Central had a hospitality room. Made the show so much better for volunteers and vendors.

I scrolled through all the pages looking for a mention of Bonsai-Central.
I believe their goal to be somewhere in the middle of the country to host a national caliber show was a good effort. They did a lot of things right.
Need improvement? Yes. But, they put out a great first round.

 

[yenling83]

I had a loosely related question for the powerful @Eric Schrader, I'm wondering if it makes sense to push the expo back by 2-4ish weeks next time around? Simply to try and get some more awesome fall color.