What’s Wrong With People - Eastern Leaf Theft

[JesusFreak]

I don't like it when people equate morals with God/s. Philosophically, that belief means that evil is human nature, and the only reason people choose not to do evil is because they're afraid of Hell or ceasing to exist when they die. They're afraid of torture and death and that's the only reason they don't steal, rape, murder, etc. It's not that they don't want to do those things, they do because it's human nature, they just don't do them because of the repercussions. That's what comments equating evil to godlessness means to me.

If there was no eternal life or threat of eternal suffering upon death, but there was still a God, would you still follow your religions outlined morals and rules? i.e. if there was no reward for devoting your life to a belief, would you still uphold and follow a set of laws and morals that that belief required?

Of course you would (at least I hope), because it's not human nature to do evil. Evil is learned, just as empathy is. Saying that someone stole something because they turned their back on God removes the important examination of how someone ended up at that place in their life where they felt it was OK to steal someone's art and work. If you just say "Godlessness" you cut out the buildup and you're just left with the act. How are you going to solve and prevent something like that again without trying to figure out what ultimately lead up to that person's behavior? If you don't actually figure out the underlining problems with society that ultimately produced that criminal, then society itself will never improve.

A man stole important items from another person and business. What can we, as members of society, learn from this act to help stop it from happening to another victim? Because thoughts and prayers won't cut it.

It is in our nature to do evil. We were born into sin since the fall of man. Why do you think you have to tell a baby that doesn’t know any better no all the time…

 

[namnhi]

This thread has more traction then the one I created to help newbies. That is just sad!

 

[_space_bard_]

It is in our nature to do evil. We were born into sin since the fall of man. Why do you think you have to tell a baby that doesn’t know any better no all the time…

I respect that that's your belief, however, I would greatly appreciate it if you did not tell me I was born into sin. I find that highly disrespectful to my mother and father who were married, faithful and, loyal to each other for 50 years until my mother passed in 2020. I do not subscribe to your same beliefs. I will not go into mine except that I very much dislike being told that I was born into sin. Or that I'm "worldly" or whatever your particular branch of Christianity labels non-Christians. I did not like being called an infidel while in Afghanistan, and I do not like being called or labeled the Christian equivalent.

This is my opinion on the matter: Saying "it's in our nature" or "we are born into sin" is a cop out for not wanting to admit that your thoughts and actions are your own constructs and decisions. A baby is not born in sin. How they are raised helps to determine their character, minus mental illnesses that cause anti-social behaviors.

 

[TN_Jim]

shake n’ bake

 

[coh]

It is in our nature to do evil. We were born into sin since the fall of man. Why do you think you have to tell a baby that doesn’t know any better no all the time…

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen on a bonsai forum. You have to tell babies "no" because they are evil sinners. Just...wow.

 

[Carol 83]

The video was painful to watch, the loss he felt. Seems almost like an inside job, picking and choosing the more developed trees, but at least they left the one he created for his wife. Not sure how a video about stolen bonsai on a BONSAI forum turned into a religious argument. Everyone is certainly allowed their own religious beliefs, but this is really not the place for it. Just sayin'.

 

[_space_bard_]

The video was painful to watch, the loss he felt. Seems almost like an inside job, picking and choosing the more developed trees, but at least they left the one he created for his wife. Not sure how a video about stolen bonsai on a BONSAI forum turned into a religious argument. Everyone is certainly allowed their own religious beliefs, but this is really not the place for it. Just sayin'.

Because one time, Jesus cursed a fig tree to death, and that's just mean

 

[leatherback]

meant that morale codes that exist nowadays developed from religion and it is influenced by culture.

How about we flip it around.

Moral codes are the foundation upon which religion is based (Religiously holding on to moral codes that unify a group). Deities come into play when people are concerned about their existence, at a loss to control the situation they are in and worry about death. There must be a reason why.

People in their core are social beings that live by generally accepted morals, accepted behaviour. These morals vary from region to region because they are based on local culture. They have nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

In short, it comes down to "Do nt do to others what you do not want to happen to you".

The only way to separate right from wrong is asking the question: What would happen if everybody acted like this, will it improve life on earth, or will it deteriorate. Unfortunately, the world has stopped asking that question, and that, in my opinion of course, is why the world is in the shitty state it is in.

 

[Peterk21]

Because one time, Jesus cursed a fig tree to death, and that's just mean

It was a metaphor for the Jews at the time who acted religious but acted as hypocrites. the fig tree was outwardly green, but had no fruits.

 

[_space_bard_]

How about we flip it around.

Moral codes are the foundation upon which religion is based (Religiously holding on to moral codes that unify a group). Deities come into play when people are concerned about their existence, at a loss to control the situation they are in and worry about death. There must be a reason why.

People in their core are social beings that live by generally accepted morals, accepted behaviour. These morals vary from region to region because they are based on local culture. They have nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

In short, it comes down to "Do nt do to others what you do not want to happen to you".

The only way to separate right from wrong is asking the question: What would happen if everybody acted like this, will it improve life on earth, or will it deteriorate. Unfortunately, the world has stopped asking that question, and that, in my opinion of course, is why the world is in the shitty state it is in.

I'm not atheist, more agnostic if I had to label myself, but I honestly feel that if there is any punishment (hell..aka torture, permanent death etc) for not worshiping a deity, then it becomes impossible to say you're a true worshipper of that deity. Because your worship becomes tainted with the selfishness of personal survival. Are you simply worshipping that God out of fear? Is the love you proclaim a form of religious Stockholm Syndrome?

To me, the only form of true worship would be to worship a deity without any promised prize or fear of repercussions. Simply because you're thankful of being alive, even if that life is only brief in the grand scheme of things.

Heaven? Hell? Who cares about that. I just need someone to thank for creating whomever made the person that invented tacos.

 

[_space_bard_]

It was a metaphor for the Jews at the time who acted religious but acted as hypocrites. the fig tree was outwardly green, but had no fruits.

I'm well aware of the metaphor. It was a joke about discussing religion in a Bonsai forum.

I've read the Bible many times, grew up Christian, and have a wife that's JW as are all of her friends. Thanks to the pandemic and all of her JW meetings being over Zoom, I get to listen to all the Bible studies

I also enjoy reading the Bible. Where else can you hear about a "righteous man" offering his daughters for sex because some horny people wanted to clap some angel cheeks?

 

[Peterk21]

Sorry, I probably just didn't read it properly

 

[just.wing.it]

Here too. Its actually much more common than most people think.

DYSLEXICS of the world UNTIE!

 

[leatherback]

DYSLEXICS of the world UNTIE!

Do you have to be lysdectic to join?

 

[HorseloverFat]

Do you have to be lysdectic to join?

I blieve you do.

 

[HorseloverFat]

I have number dyslexia, actually...

Between Intake, processing and output (referring to the neural information), 3’s and 5’s, and 7’s and 9’s will interchange randomly.... but their VALUES are the same in my “visualization equation”, and my ANSWERS are always correct... If you’d READ my work.. you’d notice the 3’s and 5’s, and 7’s and 9’s.

I also grew up STRICT “Non-denominational” Christian, have READ, fairly deeply about MOST religions.. aaaand have attended (as a guest) “Black Mass”.. so my UNDERSTANDING of Religion/Faith/Spirituality is quite different...

I take comfort in the fact that I truly KNOW, “To each his own”... seriously.. like EACH person.. every one.. has a belief set and system of principals that defines THEIR own moral code. To me... that means there are/should BILLIONS of different “religions”..

The practitioners of christianity will argue, “By Faith we are saved.. “ and “this is a lifestyle, not a religion”

Agnostics will argue that “the Orgination of Religion Spurred the Devolution of humankind”

Buddhists will argue that none of it MATTERS, and everyone walks their own path..

I find IMMENSE comfort in the fact that NO ONE can ACTUALLY tell the other they are wrong..

And no one can ACTUALLY prove themselves “right”..

IMMENSE comfort, friends.

 

[just.wing.it]

I have number dyslexia, actually...

Between Intake, processing and output (referring to the neural information), 3’s and 5’s, and 7’s and 9’s will interchange randomly.... but their VALUES are the same in my “visualization equation”, and my ANSWERS are always correct... If you’d READ my work.. you’d notice the 3’s and 5’s, and 7’s and 9’s.

I also grew up STRICT “Non-denominational” Christian, have READ, fairly deeply about MOST religions.. aaaand have attended (as a guest) “Black Mass”.. so my UNDERSTANDING of Religion/Faith/Spirituality is quite different...

I take comfort in the fact that I truly KNOW, “To each his own”... seriously.. like EACH person.. every one.. has a belief set and system of principals that defines THEIR own moral code. To me... that means there are/should BILLIONS of different “religions”..

The practitioners of christianity will argue, “By Faith we are saved.. “ and “this is a lifestyle, not a religion”

Agnostics will argue that “the Orgination of Religion Spurred the Devolution of humankind”

Buddhists will argue that none of it MATTERS, and everyone walks their own path..

I find IMMENSE comfort in the fact that NO ONE can ACTUALLY tell the other they are wrong..

And no one can ACTUALLY prove themselves “right”..

IMMENSE comfort, friends.

Nicely put.
But I must say, on the agnostic front...isn't it just obvious that post enlightenment western civilization is obviously not a "devolution" of any kind. And its all because of the (big L) Liberty that post reformation Christianity provides to a free society.
I think that's just an undeniable fact of reality....

(But I also know that "reality" is a social construct created by the white patriarchal oppressors to hold down minorities of all stripes. Bwahahahaha!)

 

[HorseloverFat]

We’re all just batteries!

 

[Kadebe]

No, I meant that morale codes that exist nowadays developed from religion and it is influenced by culture...

A group of monkeys also have moral code in their group... do don't need a God or religion

 

[MrWunderful]

Sorry but you guys lost me when the church started covering up for priests and Cardinals who raped young children. That God sounds like a prick to me.

And I don’t think that this discussion should be allowed either, but since nobody else seems to care, my freedom of speech says shove it