undiscovered native US trees?

[Vance Wood]

In my haste to post the photos, I forgot to say the first photo of the ground layer was taken in November 2006 after I had wired it for fall showing. It spent its first year in a plastic collander and grew so well, I planted it to a rock in the fall of 2003. It has been planted to this rock ever since. This tree has been in my possession for 5 years and shows no sign of decline. In fact I have rooted a cutting from it that is now a year old itself. And it is completely wired. I may just have to take a pic of that one soon too.

Greg, I told you I would rejoice in being proved wrong, and I do. This is the first time I can remember seeing these trees. This is the kind of stuff I wish you had posted earlier. If I missed an earlier post containing these tree I beg your pardon. You have proven you can harvest these kinds of trees that are more than seedlings. I think you should consider writing a book about how this is done.

I am impressed, and not in denial. Now if I can get those Bristle-cone master's to pony up with some photos and not just words I could die a happy man.

 

[JasonG]

Hi Greg,

Yes, I have been to your yard and seen all the manzanita.... and they are all very nice trees. My comments were based on collecting manzanitas as a whole. The fact you are a freak of nature (lol) and can sucessfully collect them is a rarity.

Maybe one of these days I can take you to where Rich and I grew up in Southern Oregon where there are millions of these growing.... It is almost a nusiance down there.....

Anyways, good job on the trees, and don't give away too many secrets....

Vance, I do have a bristlecone pine that I just got not to long ago, it is field grown though and not yamadori but it's still a good tree.... I have it potted and need to reduce it and wire.....

Jason

 

[cbobgo]

I collected 5 manzanita 2 years ago from the mountain behind my house. All of them had pretty shallow roots and were easy to collect. 3 of them didn't live 6 months, the 4th died this summer during the really hot spell. The 5th and largest died back about 75% during that same host spell, but it looks like one main branch might still be alive.

At least around here, it seems that they are collectable, but keeping them alive afterward is the challenge.

I look forward to gregs thread/book on manzanita care.

- bob

 

[Vance Wood]

If you can't keep it alive it is not collectable. That's way I suggested the book, this is a real break through.

I would love to see a photo of your Bristle Cone, I know of no one who has had reasonable success with even the nursery BCs. I have seen one that was posted a number of years ago that was claimed to have been a bonsai for a while.

 

[cbobgo]

Are you asking me about the bristlecone, or someone else? I had a bristlecone, but it didn't survive the bare-rooting and transport to california from chicago.

Back to the manzanitas - by collectable I meant they came out of the ground very easily. there was no big tap root. I didn't have to do much digging. 2 of them bare-rooted themselves - almost all of the soil just fell off when I lifted them out. Probably had most to do with the type of soil they were living in.

- bob

 

[Vance Wood]

Are you asking me about the bristlecone, or someone else? I had a bristlecone, but it didn't survive the bare-rooting and transport to california from chicago.

Back to the manzanitas - by collectable I meant they came out of the ground very easily. there was no big tap root. I didn't have to do much digging. 2 of them bare-rooted themselves - almost all of the soil just fell off when I lifted them out. Probably had most to do with the type of soil they were living in.

- bob

Gotcha, I understand. That too is encouraging.

 

[Greg Brenden]

Greg; These are all fantastic shots. Since so many people seem to have trouble with manzanitas, (and I am now intrigued and thinking about going and picking one up) could you start a thread on the "Other/Misc" board to talk about manzanita care? (I don't want to hijack this thread with detailed care info). I would love to hear about your success and what tricks you have learned.

'Nut--this is my second attempt to reply to your post. I will try to be brief as I fear my connection will time out again. What I said in a nutshell ;-) ;-) was to look up the article in the Sept/Oct 2004 Golden Statements magazine, titled, "Collecting manzanita; The Impossible Dream? No!" by Tom Kelly. It is a 10 page article with lots of photos and does a better job than I could do on this site. It does not go into collecting them, which would require another article perhaps longer than the one aforementioned. I was approached by Roger Case of ABS in Anaheim about doing an article. I am also considering approaching Bonsai Today about an article too.

I am pleased to say that I have found manzanitas worthy of collecting not far from where I'm living in Oregon. I collected my first nice tree February 1st and am hoping for a good season given our rainy winter here.

 

[Greg Brenden]

Hi Greg,

Yes, I have been to your yard and seen all the manzanita.... and they are all very nice trees. My comments were based on collecting manzanitas as a whole. The fact you are a freak of nature (lol) and can sucessfully collect them is a rarity.

Maybe one of these days I can take you to where Rich and I grew up in Southern Oregon where there are millions of these growing.... It is almost a nusiance down there.....

Anyways, good job on the trees, and don't give away too many secrets....

Vance, I do have a bristlecone pine that I just got not to long ago, it is field grown though and not yamadori but it's still a good tree.... I have it potted and need to reduce it and wire.....

Jason

Well....what are you waiting for? I have already been out collecting manzanita around here. I'm sure they're RTG down south!!!

 

[Greg Brenden]

Greg, I told you I would rejoice in being proved wrong, and I do. This is the first time I can remember seeing these trees. This is the kind of stuff I wish you had posted earlier. If I missed an earlier post containing these tree I beg your pardon. You have proven you can harvest these kinds of trees that are more than seedlings. I think you should consider writing a book about how this is done.

I am impressed, and not in denial. Now if I can get those Bristle-cone master's to pony up with some photos and not just words I could die a happy man.

Good to see you saw the evidence, Vance. I know it has been a long time since the ASNF days...and the manzanitas are still alive. More are on the way. Does this ring a bell?

 

[Vance Wood]

I have not forgotten Greg, I remember you took me to task for forcing you to buy a camera and some soft ware inorder to post pictures. It seems now you are being rewarded for doing just that, and I am glad. I love Manzanita, I wish I had had the opportunity to harvest some when I was living in California.

 

[onlyrey]

Undiscovered Native Species: Viburnum obovatum (Walter's Viburnum)

What about Viburnum obovatum (Walter's Viburnum), believe also called small leaf arrowwood. This is a shrub species native to Florida. Not much said about them being used as bonsai, but the way they look screams bonsai to me. Relatively small leaves very good ramification, and beautiful small white flowers.

Here is a link to the plant's information:
http://www.floridata.com/ref/V/vibu_obo.cfm

 

[Jay Wilson]

Hey onlyrey. Welcome to the forum.

The viburnum sounds interesting....
I haven't noticed any around where I live but I haven't been looking either. I'll be looking for them this spring though now that you've brought it to my mind.
Thanks,

Jay

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Manzanita is also a possibility but out side of the really young ones and those cultivated from seed I have not seen any of the really old driftwood Manzanitas I remember from when I lived in California.

Hey Vance;

Here's a photo of an older manzanita on display at the GSBF 2007 exhibition I was just at. The thing was huge - easily 3' tall though it is hard to tell scale from my photo.

 

[Vance Wood]

This tree is more along the line of what I have been looking to see for years. Little young ones seem to be no problem, but I have seen some old Manzanitas (when I lived in California) that had trunks on them that looked like Kimura had been out in the woods carving trunks. This is the first time I have had a confirmed posting of one of these old timers, thanks for posting it. Now if we can get the owner to share the tree's history we could all learn something.

Next great hope is an old Bristle cone Pine grown as a bonsai for more than ten years.

 

[Zappa]

Celtis occidentalis, Western Hackberry, beats any of the Asian hackberries hands down, incredible ramification, small scale furrowed bark, fast growing. I don't know if there are any yamadori possibilities, but there may be in the Appalacians. Nursery material is perfectly suitable and large trunks are possible in a short period due the fast growth rate.

I truely believe in the potential of the Hackberry....I have a fleet of them in production now

I also believe in the potential of the white poplar....I have tons of these around the house....new ones grow from the roots of older ones...not sure what this is called...but it seems like they're all connected...The only bonsai specimen Ive seen was done by Putz....here's a link to it


http://www.artofbonsai.org/galleries/bonsai_putz.php

 

[Attila Soos]

This is the first time I have had a confirmed posting of one of these old timers

...and possibly the last time that you see something like this, since this is probably the only Manzanita bonsai in the world, of this quality.

Now if we can get the owner to share the tree's history we could all learn something.

Unfortunately, Lindsey Shiba doesn't post on-line. Even his friends don't know too much about this tree.
I am happy that the tree is still going strong, I dont' see any decline since the last time I saw it, five years ago.

This is one of those priceless and rare trees where the trace of human intervention is absolutely invisible. No matter how long you look, you will never find anything remotely artificial looking. Every single inch on this tree looks totally natural.
Peter Warren mentioned this in a recent Bonsai Focus article about a Kunio Kobayashi simpaku juniper, saying that there are a few bonsai masters still alive, who strive for this kind of quality in a tree (total naturalness). This is very different from today's trend for heavily carved pseudo-yamadori, where one can see the mark of human hand everywhere.

 

[Graydon]

That was quite a tree, one of my favorites at the GSBF. I could not get what I considered a great photo due to the poor lighting but I got a nice sequence of HD video from a lower angle. I am excited to get home to dump it to the drive and see if the detail is as good as I had hoped. In person it certainly popped more than the photo posted. Breathtaking.

 

[John Romano]

There was another much discussed unique manzanita posted widely on the web back in 2004-05 as displayed in Boons show in California. I don't have a photo but you can see it at Boons site:
http://www.bonsaiboon.com/bib/bibimages2/2004-32.jpg
Various discussions ensued with the main agreement being that California Manzanita were harder to cultivate as bonsai than were those from Arizona. I believe much of this discussion was at the IBC (?) but am not certain.

John Romano
Rhode Island - USA (the 'shohin' state)

 

[Attila Soos]

Thanks John for this photo.
It is a remarkable manzanita, right up to the standard set by the first one.

 

[Greg Brenden]

There was another much discussed unique manzanita posted widely on the web back in 2004-05 as displayed in Boons show in California. I don't have a photo but you can see it at Boons site:
http://www.bonsaiboon.com/bib/bibimages2/2004-32.jpg
Various discussions ensued with the main agreement being that California Manzanita were harder to cultivate as bonsai than were those from Arizona. I believe much of this discussion was at the IBC (?) but am not certain.

John Romano
Rhode Island - USA (the 'shohin' state)

Go back to page four of this VERY THREAD, I posted photos of this manzanita after it was collected as well as several others of manzanitas in my collection. Tom Kelly interviewed me about collecting manzanitas in the Sept/Oct "Golden Statements" and, in addition to that, I gave a workshop on manzanita at the 2005 GSBF convention in Anaheim CA. I cannot believe all of this could have fallen to the wayside. What a sad situation!