Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
Are these your best efforts? How long have you been in bonsai?
Treeblers verses 'Taters...
- Thread starter Forsoothe!
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- chopping collecting
Are these your best efforts? How long have you been in bonsai?
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
You may notice that some people, the same people, over and over, find it necessary to attack the messenger rather than the message. So be it.
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
It is my great honor and purpose to poke holes in the boats of people who stand on center stage and dictate what is good and acceptable, and what is beneath their lofty pronouncements based upon their length of service. Longevity may be golden in Union workshops, but in art "old" is not a trump card. Old is taken for what it's worth, on it's face, in today's terms and as compared to all else available. Sometimes better, sometimes not so good.
In Detroit, we have a cliche, "They don't build 'em like they used to. And it's a damn good thing, because nobody would buy them."
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
I don't see yours to compare to mine. I'm waiting...
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
Please feel free to offer something more enlightening!
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Try talking about designs, as in balance, harmony,
pattern, composition, negative and positive spaces,
as one might discuss a Raphael painting.
Good Day
Anthony
pattern, composition, negative and positive spaces,
as one might discuss a Raphael painting.
Good Day
Anthony
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
I could not agree more. See post #1.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Fair enough. Shows a bit of inexperience in working with collected material, but valid.
I know you're going to take this as some kind of persecution, but, um, er, ALL the trees in your too little ficus forest look like they were broken in two with abrupt shift to multiple apexes-- just like most chopped trees. None have any taper. Explain how your approach is any different than the sins you've accused most everyone else of committing...
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Tater / Treebler bit was confusing.
Plus on our side it is rare we dig mature anything
clay soils, mild climate and no driftwood, plus termites.
Seeds, cuttings air layers and small road worker
chopped plants.
Most trees down here will grow a 3 inch trunk
in 1 to 3 years.
So wounds will heal and a design is drwn before the
growing period, and wounds are naturally small.
Also we use nature as the guide.
We use the techniques, but not the Japanese designs.
Get the guys to discuss the Design of their trees.
Good Day
Anthony
Plus on our side it is rare we dig mature anything
clay soils, mild climate and no driftwood, plus termites.
Seeds, cuttings air layers and small road worker
chopped plants.
Most trees down here will grow a 3 inch trunk
in 1 to 3 years.
So wounds will heal and a design is drwn before the
growing period, and wounds are naturally small.
Also we use nature as the guide.
We use the techniques, but not the Japanese designs.
Get the guys to discuss the Design of their trees.
Good Day
Anthony
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
For the record: I will not re-post other people's photos of 'Taters. My aim is not to use someone else's pictures as examples of 'Taters I don't like, but rather to encourage new people to post photos of their efforts to begin styling pre-bonsai and smaller collected saplings and such without fearing that the superpowers of bonsai will tell them that they need to grow it on for twenty years before styling it. That kind of advice drives new people away from a hobby that should be very, very popular, but is not because of the uppity attitudes of il cognoscenti pushing the "collect monsters or nothing" contests.
I say again: You can grow a starter into a nice, tree-like bonsai in the same amount of time that it takes to re-grow a decent top on a potato, and have something that is not ugly for the first half of the journey. New people DO NOT want ugly lumps on their window sills for years and years.
I say again: You can grow a starter into a nice, tree-like bonsai in the same amount of time that it takes to re-grow a decent top on a potato, and have something that is not ugly for the first half of the journey. New people DO NOT want ugly lumps on their window sills for years and years.
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
OK, whatever, but you did not answer either of the questions. Are these your best efforts and how long has it taken you to get them there?
I really did not want to play "mines bigger that yours" and I fail to see how my trees would relate to your answers to my questions above. But, OK, I will "whip it out".
Here is a forest to compare to yours:
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/i-likus-the-ficus-part-ii.19612/page-4 , post #62
A ficus to compare to yours, even if it is "tater-like":
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/i-likeus-the-ficus.18101/page-4 , post #62
Lastly, a maple:
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/arakawa-maple.23334/page-4 , post #76
There are many more on the site, some better, some worse. I am sure that you know how to use the search function. I apologize for the links, I am at work and I am unable to upload from my work computer, IT group, gotta love 'em. Oh, and I am a proud, card carrying member of USW, United Steel Workers.
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
You're right about the ~clumsy~ steps on the forest trunk transitions. I'm working on it. I disagree with the "multiple apexes" assessment, -that's how I like them, kind of a choppy sea. I have others with more continuous canopies which I think need to be trimmed to bumpy cloud tops. I like 2017 better than 2018.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
This is just plain dishonest.
If you're going to play the old persecuted bonsai master part, at least be honest about it. You created this thread as part of a passive/aggressive attack on others who you seem to have a big problem with.
For some reason which is a passing mystery to me, you seem to see others with exceptional trees as some kind of threat to others that you must rescue others from. And FWIW, I am hardly one of those with exceptional trees or talent. My trees are not all that terrific my talents are pretty humble. I'm certainly not in the league with Adair, Smoke and others who post here.
This "defense" against "people who take center stage" is a very strange attitude (and seems like you like center stage yourself)--but so be it.
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
Both credible plantings, and not 'Taters. They may once have been, but are not now. 'Taters are wider than tall and that is why they are not artful, graceful, or tree-like. Some people still like 'Taters, but not many.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
OK, but you didn't really explain how this transition from a chop is any different than the ugly/clumsy transitions you're pinning on others' trees...
coachspinks
Chumono
I typed a long response but deleted it since I don't think some people will change their mind. I do wish that a discussion over styles and viewpoints could be had without it turning in to an argument. Personally, sumos are not my favorite style. I understand that they are largely representative and I do appreciate them. I want to develop one or five just to see if I have the skill. One question regarding sumos, when did they become popular? 30 years ago when I was involved in bonsai, before the internet, my only source of information was books and an occasional trip to the monastery where I was lucky enough to work with a couple of masters. In this time I never saw a sumo.
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
Very few people will pit themselves against the crowd, even when the crowd is wrong-headed. Maybe especially when the crowd is wrong-headed. The wrong-headed crowd here is about a half-dozen old timers who insist that only serious bonsai is allowed. The, "If you're going to do it, you've got to do it according to rigid standards. Their standards. Americans like to do it "My way" (their way). I say that's just fine as a way to develop a deeper interest in the hobby. I say encourage that. You take your student as you find him.
Whatever else is true, I am not a Master, nor will I become one. I am a hobbyist at best.
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Omono
Weren't you the one hawking the use of potting soil as the missing piece in the golden soil formula?
coachspinks
Chumono
You are wrong. The crowd here, as you call it, are very helpful with newcomers. Even when they see the same questions asked over and over again.
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
You're looking at naked trees choped a week ago. I'd bet your life the Mellow Mullet Willowleaf forest above looks just like that inside the leafy canopy, and that mine will look just fine with leaves. Show me better.
