Subtropical verses tropical care...

Carp,

how many on that list are actually Tropical ?
AND as Grimmy mentioned where were they grown ?
Good Day
Anthony
 
You missed a lot then! One of the key topics discussed was the origin of the plant. For instance in the North East I buy 1 each Rhododendron PMJ which are very cold hardy but one from FL and the other from CT they need to be Wintered up here differently the first full season. If I do not shelter the stock from FL the first season and acclimate it for a year it just dies outside while the other acts as advertised...

In the North East when NIGHTS cool off to the 50 -55F range the daytime is normally in the low 70's. If the plants are brought into a shelter during the day at thme when it is in the 70's inside they suffer the least amount of shock, drop little or no foliage and act and survive normally.

Could they take a lot more cold? Well hell yes but when we get to 30's in the night and far below the days are equally cold - far different then your area which I am familiar with having family and friends there(yes I actually have friends :p).

Thank you for playing though :rolleyes:

Grimmy

What you're describing with your PMJ from FL versus CT is just normal acclimation. You can't take a shade-grown palm and put it out in the full summer sun or it will burn, but if it is slowly exposed, it will thrive like any other sun-grown palm. Its the same principle of what you're describing. What you've described is not a zonal variation of the species DNA in any way. The FL grown stock is not acclimated to the cold temps you are experiencing, so it it sensitive to those temps until it has been appropriately adjusted. Simple as that.

Depending on the locale of the FL Nursery could influence that as well. It snows in North Florida. In Central Florida they see freezing temps several times through the season. In South Florida, rarely a frost. Keep in mind, it's an 8hr drive from Key West to Jacksonville. Florida ranges a lot of USDA zones.

Carp,

how many on that list are actually Tropical ?
AND as Grimmy mentioned where were they grown ?
Good Day
Anthony

Tell me what your opinion of a sub-tropical species compared to a tropical species is, and I can give a thorough answer to the first question. Here are the native ranges for the species mentioned, minus bougainvillea since you've already made the determination that it is not tropical, but subtropical based on your criteria. I also left out the Ficus because I have 13 varieties (salicaria varieties, microcarpa varities, burtt davyi, triangularis, benjimina) and they range from all sorts of locations and I'm not going to spend the time researching each native range.

Buttonwood and Mangrove ranges from South-Central Florida, as far south as the Galapagos Islands and has even been found off the coasts of west African islands.
Sea Hibiscus can be found on just about any tropical coastline anywhere in the world along with many other members of the Hibiscus family.
Fukien Tea is native to the Fujian range of China which is a southern coast are west of Taiwan.
Lantana camara and Wrightia religiosa are both native to Malaysia, Thailand and Cambodia.
Pitanga/Surinam Cherry/Eugenia uniflora is native to Brazil.
Acerola/Barbados Cherry/Malpighia is native to the West Indes and occurs as far south as Brazil.
Osteomeles occurs in South China and South Japan (could not find definitive info)

All, literally every single one of my trees, is from some place in Florida. Either collected or grown here.
 
Seth,

Florida, is not in the Tropics, neither is China, Japan or Taiwan. Our Malpighia e, would die in Florida, as would our mangrove / buttonwoods. Lanatana grows wild in Trinidad.
The area where the bougainvillea comes from is listed as sub-tropical.

Mangrove and Buttonwood are 30 '+ trees on my side, not shrubs.

Please note, Darlene knows me well enough to know that I would try to give her the best help and if I caused her plants to die, would buy them back.
Would you repurchase plants for her?

Book titles later Darlene.
Good Day
Anthony
 
Seth,

Florida, is not in the Tropics, neither is China, Japan or Taiwan. Our Malpighia e, would die in Florida, as would our mangrove / buttonwoods. Lanatana grows wild in Trinidad.
The area where the bougainvillea comes from is listed as sub-tropical.

Mangrove and Buttonwood are 30 '+ trees on my side, not shrubs.

Please note, Darlene knows me well enough to know that I would try to give her the best help and if I caused her plants to die, would buy them back.
Would you repurchase plants for her?

Book titles later Darlene.
Good Day
Anthony
I would never expect that Anthony...but, I do know you've never steered me wrong. I am not trying to decide what can grow in Florida but, wintering in my northern climate. I believe is where you were going with your reply. Much appreciated your input.
 
Seth,

Florida, is not in the Tropics, neither is China, Japan or Taiwan. Our Malpighia e, would die in Florida, as would our mangrove / buttonwoods. Lanatana grows wild in Trinidad.
The area where the bougainvillea comes from is listed as sub-tropical.

Mangrove and Buttonwood are 30 '+ trees on my side, not shrubs.

Please note, Darlene knows me well enough to know that I would try to give her the best help and if I caused her plants to die, would buy them back.
Would you repurchase plants for her?

Book titles later Darlene.
Good Day
Anthony

Lanatana grows wild in FL as well, so do buttonwood and mangrove and they grow as trees here as well. Malpighia do great in Florida.

South China and Taiwan very well are the tropics, and so is South Japan. Do some research and you will find out everything I posted here is true.
 
I'm not calling anyone a liar, but just informing you those are misconceptions. Also, I am waiting on the definition of subtropical vs tropical.

My point is not about what grows in FL, rather that tropical bonsai species handle much more cold than they presumed to.
 
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I'm not calling anyone a liar, but just informing you those misconceptions.

For the most part you have said what has been said in the thread already... Fact is we need to shelter many varieties in the North East and the discussion is based on Darlene being curious on how others perform that operation. I actually see this thread as useful to you in that you could offer your customers more detailed information if they are in a cold climate rather then book and/or scientific information which although sounds professional offers no real answer to the question. For example if I explain why one should consider where a plant came from and how to acclimate it they have learned a method. Yes it is based on Scientific, Botanical, and Geographical information but easier to understand... Many of us could just explain those components and leave a person to figure it all out but that is not what they asked for.

Grimmy
 
China Hardiness map -http://natures-water.com/education_information/hardiness_zones/china.jpg

40 deg.F = 4,44 deg .f

Florida -
http://publicserver2.sjrwmd.com/waterwise/img/Hardiness-zones.gif

Tropics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropics#/media/File:World_map_indicating_tropics_and_subtropics.png

Please note that 55 deg.F also comes with no chance of frost.

Please also note this thread is to help Darlene.
Because of my aunt who used to live in southern Florida for 40 years, we know what frost does to mango and tamarind trees.
Also please pay attention to Mountainous areas. Tierra templada, Terra fria.
Good Day
Anthony
 
Darlene,

book titles - you can library these two first -

Indoor Bonsai - Brooklyn Botanic Garden Record

Growing Bonsai Indoors - Brooklyn Botanic Garden all regions.

From Mr. Valavanis [ see his site for contact information ]

International Bonsai 1996 - 4 - Indoor Bonsai [ Jack Wikle ]

Interesting how old this information is, isn't it.
Best to you.
Good Day
Anthony
 
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