To argue, could you put your best foot forward to post?

Smoke said:
What if there was a bonsai forum that anyone could join, but to post you had to post a picture of your best tree, or as many as you have with each post?

So when you go telling the next guy what he has done wrong or how they should be doing it, at least the one getting pounded on has a nice portfolio of all the posters trees so he can evaluate whether they are someone to listen to, or just someone to put on ignore, which is pretty much how I do it now.

The old IBC used to have a very strict photo policy. The new IBC does not have this anymore.

Wouldn't it be refreshing if someone posted something that they think you could do to improve your tree and they had to not only provide a picture of their own work, so you could evaluate their knowledge level, but also had to provide pictures of the work they are asking you to do, how it worked on their trees. I mean if you want someone else to do the work, at least show me you know what the hell your talking about.
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Good idea, Smoke. One point to consider is some of us, myself for one, read a LOT here on the forum; however, we post very little. Perhaps, because we have little confidence in our own ability or think our trees do not measure up. But jumping in. I know the pot shown below is too large for this tree but it was the closest available at the time.

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Brian Van Fleet said:
It's a great idea to include photographs or posts to support replies or advice, and even better for the recipient who now gets to discern which advice has the best chance of leading him/her to an outcome they want.

I also check out others' work and efforts to determine if it's worth the trouble to engage. If someone can't be bothered to do a little homework on their own, or can't seem to advance, I have a hard time getting invested. For better or worse, someone always seems willing to jump in. Peter Warren said something in my back yard that I will never forget: "Some people practice bonsai for 30 years, and others practice it one year, 30 times over."

View attachment 142715
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It does not take very long to learn whom to follow and emulate and whom to ignore. Oh, and thanks for all your help. Based on your comment, you must see some progress in my efforts and that is most encouraging.

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milehigh_7 said:
One small qualifier, the trees you post that show your level of brilliance and membership card as an ascended master must have only been worked on by you. With the exception of general pre-bonsai work such as root pruning and maybe a trunk chop or two.

If a visiting master did so much as a cut or bend, it's not your work. If you bought it styled, even roughly, it's not your work.
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Disagree.
 
Well this topic has quickly engendered a lot of discussion, not all of which I have read, but the general feeling I get is that there is not going to be a fool-proof way of proving someone's bona-fides with a simple picture, etc. and the only good way to know is the old-fashioned one of investing time by hanging around and getting to know the players through multiple postings.

But another idea that occurred is if each member could have the option of creating a personal gallery of trees that they in some way can take credit for, that might serve as one piece of information in evaluating credibility, as well as being a nice collection of work to refer to.
 
thumblessprimate1 said:
I should should post photos of all the trees I've killed. :( Funny. Thinking back, I've killed mostly deciduous, but I think I'm worst with Japanese Black Pine. Maybe I just need to play with more JBP.
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I pretty much killed everything from my threads i started when i first joined here.

Kill em til ya get it right...that is what i'm doing. Killed a half dozen black pines, couple seedlings, one decent start on a shohin and one really nice shohin. ah well, I don't run from it. Still lots of room to improve, but i've got a much better handle on them now. Get yourself some more!
 
Cadillactaste said:
@Adair M ...I would assume having a specimen tree takes a lot of care to keep it in shape. With those you have your own set of challenges no doubt. I did think of that...when I read the previous comments.
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For sure being a curator of other people's work is a skill but it does not make you an authority on bonsai. It makes you an authority on horticulture.
 
milehigh_7 said:
If a visiting master did so much as a cut or bend, it's not your work. If you bought it styled, even roughly, it's not your work.
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And so this means you have nothing to offer to the forum, and all the advice you might give someone (based on years of experience) is invalid? Well I guess I'll shut right up.
 
JudyB said:
And so this means you have nothing to offer to the forum, and all the advice you might give someone (based on years of experience) is invalid? Well I guess I'll shut right up.
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Definitely loopholes...and downfalls. Might be why it's no longer needed at the other site. Someone with years of experience and quality trees would be far different than say someone with a year under their belt with quality trees. So trees can be deceiving as well.
 
JudyB said:
And so this means you have nothing to offer to the forum, and all the advice you might give someone (based on years of experience) is invalid? Well I guess I'll shut right up.
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I am speaking sort of tongue in cheek. Smoke is championing a world in which you have no right to speak without being able to show what you know. Well, that's great and we all know he's the man (and he sort of has this world on his blog). There are a few folks like me who have been doing this now for about 18 years and while excuses are like butts, I have nothing to show for that time. I could whine if you want but at then end of the day, I don't have anything. If you care to know why message me.

I have during that time learned a thing or two and what I don't know, I don't claim to know. Everything I know I have learned from trial and error, books, videos or the folks here.

Another thing about me is that I have spent a great deal of my life in academia. When you take so much as an idea from another, it must be cited as their work. Bonsai is not like that. Nothing really stops somebody from plopping down $1000 and calling themselves and expert. Or having a tree with potential that a master styles at a workshop now all of a sudden it's them that is really talented. This is changing the rules and is intellectually dishonest in Smoke's game, not mine.
 
Cadillactaste said:
Definitely loopholes...and downfalls. Might be why it's no longer needed at the other site. Someone with years of experience and quality trees would be far different than say someone with a year under their belt with quality trees. So trees can be deceiving as well.
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It's no longer needed at the IBC because nobody goes there...correlation? Definitely. And as much as some lament a gone-but-not-forgotten mod there, he was a prime example of a site eating its own. Look where IBC is now vs. here. IBC shows 11 new posts in the last 3 days.

Posting a tree to illustrate the point, or to illustrate that you know what you're talking about is great, but it shouldn't be required. As Ron said, people will figure out who can talk and who can work. It's not that tough.
IMG_0339.JPG
 
Brian Van Fleet said:
Maybe for fun, we should all go over to the IBC and post away for a day, just like we would here and see how many of us get tossed out...
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I remember when I was first over there, I was chided for posting a photo of a work in progress tree to a personal gallery. Apparently there was some rule about only "finished" trees were good enough to be seen... really gave me a bad taste for that place right off the bat.
 
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