Thoughts on Peter Chan? (Herons Bonsai)

I don't claim to know enough about art to be the authority voice on any type of art. So I am not going to say whether bonsai can be considered art worthy of being shown in art museums. Others can better speak for that. However, having worked with people at a major art museum compel me to say that art museums often choose to exhibit the art pieces that they know they can care for and maintain security during the time of the art exhibits. Being living art, bonsai care requirement can be out of the norm for many museums. That can be one of the many reasons why bonsai have not been shown. Most curators will say that bonsai is an art form best left to the specialists for the form.
PS: I much rather we stay with the original post intent.
 
Worthy of any art gallery/museum exhibition:
 
Chan is a charlatan of the highest order at this point, and it's his ego that is doing it to him. Clearly, he can run a successful business, but that's about it. Here's just one example video of what I'm talking about, which he has since edited to cut out the part where he broke the tree in half. I'm copy/pasting my comment from the video as well as the link. Every styling video he makes is a bragging session about how super speedy fast he is at styling trees, how he's the only one in the UK that gets called on to style xyz because there's no one that can do what he does, etc etc etc, followed by a video of him absolutely mutilating a tree. Anyway, here's the link and my comment for an explanation.
"I'm seeing a lot of comments on here from the “True Bonsai Artists™” praising Peter for this. This is bullshit, and if you can’t acknowledge that, you’re blind. He fu*cked this tree up royally, and it’s obvious from the noise he made when he snapped the damn tree in half, but then he just kept on going like it was nothing because he was doing it in front of a live audience, and then had the gall to post this abomination on YouTube. This was not intended in the least, and it was obvious from the stream of bullshit he was spewing after the moment of disaster. Everyone makes mistakes, I’ve seen some wonderful work from bonsai masters that will really chop a tree down but shape it for the future and I’ve seen others that let their ego get in the way and absolutely brutalize a tree. You don’t have to be a “True Bonsai” whatever to be able to see that this was a disaster... and it’s not his first time. There’s another video on here where he mutilated a tree live in front of an audience AND the owner of the tree. The guy was nice enough to grin and bear it, but it was obvious that he was not happy in the least."
 
Chan is a charlatan of the highest order at this point, and it's his ego that is doing it to him. Clearly, he can run a successful business, but that's about it. Here's just one example video of what I'm talking about, which he has since edited to cut out the part where he broke the tree in half. I'm copy/pasting my comment from the video as well as the link. Every styling video he makes is a bragging session about how super speedy fast he is at styling trees, how he's the only one in the UK that gets called on to style xyz because there's no one that can do what he does, etc etc etc, followed by a video of him absolutely mutilating a tree. Anyway, here's the link and my comment for an explanation.
"I'm seeing a lot of comments on here from the “True Bonsai Artists™” praising Peter for this. This is bullshit, and if you can’t acknowledge that, you’re blind. He fu*cked this tree up royally, and it’s obvious from the noise he made when he snapped the damn tree in half, but then he just kept on going like it was nothing because he was doing it in front of a live audience, and then had the gall to post this abomination on YouTube. This was not intended in the least, and it was obvious from the stream of bullshit he was spewing after the moment of disaster. Everyone makes mistakes, I’ve seen some wonderful work from bonsai masters that will really chop a tree down but shape it for the future and I’ve seen others that let their ego get in the way and absolutely brutalize a tree. You don’t have to be a “True Bonsai” whatever to be able to see that this was a disaster... and it’s not his first time. There’s another video on here where he mutilated a tree live in front of an audience AND the owner of the tree. The guy was nice enough to grin and bear it, but it was obvious that he was not happy in the least."
Wow 🙃
 
I believe Peter Chan has a good array of specimens if you’re looking to style your own. I must admit his deciduous bonsai are impressive, and his field grown conifers /deciduous great as well. The bonsai at his Wesley garden are good too, but then again they are older and I think he is way past his prime, although it’s a achievement for someone practicing as long as he has. .
At the same time, as i said before , his styling is hard to watch especially for someone who’s been doing Bonsai as long as he has. I mean what he did to a John Naka juniper forest idk if I could ever forget that, but could have been from a clients that neglected it. I do respect him for bringing Bonsai into forefront more and his philanthropic endeavors. Just think if he had some other Bonsai practitioner in the UK collaborate on wiring his trees , and he focused on developing deciduous and getting from ground it pot, that would be a cool thing to see.
 
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I believe Peter Chan has a good array of specimens if you’re looking to style your own. I must admit his deciduous bonsai are impressive, and his field grown conifers /deciduous great as well. The bonsai at his Wesley garden are good too, but then again they are older and I think he is way past his prime, although it’s a achievement for someone practicing as long as he has. .
At the same time, as i said before , his styling is hard to watch especially for someone who’s been doing Bonsai as long as he has. I mean what he did to a John Naka juniper forest idk if I could ever forget that.
Do you have a link? I saw it mentioned earlier in this thread, but I couldn't find the video
 
"The problem with that as an artist’s statement for an art museum is that it could be the artist’s statement for any bonsai artist’s solo exhibit."

like any blanket statement, there are exceptions. I think that thinking it terms of "traditional" art doesn't quite cover bonsai. I don't think that "craft" covers it either. Bonsai can be an individual statement, or a statement by a group (since trees have longer lives than humans and many people imprint their "vision" on bonsai over the years. That statement can simply be "endurance," "struggle," "prosperity" or any other emotion expressed through the design elements including and nurtured in a bonsai. Bonsai is not really about trees. It is about human emotion. The tree is used as a trigger for those emotions in the viewer, just like any other art.





I was actually thinking about Nick Lenz when I wrote this:
"There may be individual works that they’d make an exception for and regard as art."
and this:
Ironically, the bonsai that are most likely to be regarded as art by art school people are the ones most likely to make bonsai people think, “That’s an interesting tree sculpture thing you have there, but I’m not so sure I would call it bonsai.”

I'm not saying that bonsai is only craft and not art. I'm simply being realistic about how it is generally regarded by the majority of people who run academic art programs or curate art museums and the likelihood of that changing anytime soon. I'm well aware of the exhibit that Ryan Neil organized at an art museum in Portland, but also keenly aware that it is an outlier -- not the sort of content that art museums routinely exhibit.

Certainly, there are other mediums that have made in-roads to being accepted as art by the art world elite. Fiber arts come to mind. It used to be the case that textiles were overwhelmingly regarded as craft and you'd never see a quilt in an art museum. That's changed in recent years, primarily due to the activism of feminist artists and curators who argued that exclusion of fiber arts from exhibition spaces was a fundamentally sexist institutional practice. So, now you'll see fiber arts in art museums.

Maybe bonsai can get into the art schools eventually, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Also, if/when the "tree arts" ultimately make their way into fine arts exhibition spaces with regularity, I'm not so sure that the aesthetics will remain recognizable as bonsai. Nick Lenz's work, for example, is already quite far outside the norm of what you see at a typical bonsai show. If you write a sonnet and it's not in iambic pentameter, is it still a sonnet or are you doing something else?
 
Chan is a charlatan of the highest order at this point, and it's his ego that is doing it to him.
Wow, please, do not hold back.

Your review is absolute bullshit though. I am guessing you are new to bonsai, and you have never seen a tree reduction taking place? "cracking sounds" are very normal when bending bigger branches. In fact, breaking part of the fibres often is the only way.

I am sad that he has not posted the final outcome of the styling of this tree. I see nothing fundamentally wrong in what was done in the video you posted. So unless you have some great examples as to why you know better, maybe watch the video, listen to what is being said and who knows, maybe LEARN something. I would recommend starting at 2:20 and 6:30 for starters, which is where he explains why the cascade is difficult to do and requires breaking the trunk -before he does it- and why he thinks most of the tree needs to go, which is spot on correct.
 
Chan is a charlatan of the highest order at this point, and it's his ego that is doing it to him. Clearly, he can run a successful business, but that's about it. Here's just one example video of what I'm talking about, which he has since edited to cut out the part where he broke the tree in half. I'm copy/pasting my comment from the video as well as the link. Every styling video he makes is a bragging session about how super speedy fast he is at styling trees, how he's the only one in the UK that gets called on to style xyz because there's no one that can do what he does, etc etc etc, followed by a video of him absolutely mutilating a tree. Anyway, here's the link and my comment for an explanation.
"I'm seeing a lot of comments on here from the “True Bonsai Artists™” praising Peter for this. This is bullshit, and if you can’t acknowledge that, you’re blind. He fu*cked this tree up royally, and it’s obvious from the noise he made when he snapped the damn tree in half, but then he just kept on going like it was nothing because he was doing it in front of a live audience, and then had the gall to post this abomination on YouTube. This was not intended in the least, and it was obvious from the stream of bullshit he was spewing after the moment of disaster. Everyone makes mistakes, I’ve seen some wonderful work from bonsai masters that will really chop a tree down but shape it for the future and I’ve seen others that let their ego get in the way and absolutely brutalize a tree. You don’t have to be a “True Bonsai” whatever to be able to see that this was a disaster... and it’s not his first time. There’s another video on here where he mutilated a tree live in front of an audience AND the owner of the tree. The guy was nice enough to grin and bear it, but it was obvious that he was not happy in the least."
I'd have to agree with Leather. What Chan is doing in reducing the tree and creating a jin is pretty common practice. He didn't "f*&^ the tree up. He created a large jin using some pretty nice pliers MADE SPECIFICALLY FOR WHAT HE'S DOING. Creating a decent jin from a large branch requires ripping it off to replicate what nature does when IT creates a jin. The large branch he snapped off was, as he said, mostly useless and didn't contribute to what he sees as the final design. Snapping the branch results in a rough, jagged end on the branch, which is a more natural-looking edge on the resulting stub...

It was not a "disaster." He was not spewing BS. Anyone with any experience working on larger stock has probably done exactly what he's doing.
 
Wow, please, do not hold back.

Your review is absolute bullshit though. I am guessing you are new to bonsai, and you have never seen a tree reduction taking place? "cracking sounds" are very normal when bending bigger branches. In fact, breaking part of the fibres often is the only way.

I am sad that he has not posted the final outcome of the styling of this tree. I see nothing fundamentally wrong in what was done in the video you posted. So unless you have some great examples as to why you know better, maybe watch the video, listen to what is being said and who knows, maybe LEARN something. I would recommend starting at 2:20 and 6:30 for starters, which is where he explains why the cascade is difficult to do and requires breaking the trunk -before he does it- and why he thinks most of the tree needs to go, which is spot on correct.
Your comments made me view that video carefully. I agree with your assessment. I for one would love to have the skills of that charlatan.
People keep on talking about Peter destroying and killing trees. Would he remain in business for decades if he kills a substantial percentage of trees he touches and either kills his own stock or kills the client trees?
 
I'd have to agree with Leather. What Chan is doing in reducing the tree and creating a jin is pretty common practice. He didn't "f*&^ the tree up. He created a large jin using some pretty nice pliers MADE SPECIFICALLY FOR WHAT HE'S DOING. Creating a decent jin from a large branch requires ripping it off to replicate what nature does when IT creates a jin. The large branch he snapped off was, as he said, mostly useless and didn't contribute to what he sees as the final design. Snapping the branch results in a rough, jagged end on the branch, which is a more natural-looking edge on the resulting stub...

It was not a "disaster." He was not spewing BS. Anyone with any experience working on larger stock has probably done exactly what he's doing.
Except, as I mentioned, the video has been edited. He had decided to bend the branch and wire it, and ended up snapping it and then went with oh well, that's what I really meant to do, etc. He and the whole room gasped when he did it. That part is cut out now. Anyhoo, That's my 2 cents, but I don't have any delusions about it changing the mind of those who see Chan as a bonsai God. He could've ripped it out of the pot, threw it on the floor and stepped on it to break it in half and then repotted it in 100% broccoli in a supermarket bag and you guys would still be ooohing and aaaahing.
 
Except, as I mentioned, the video has been edited. He had decided to bend the branch and wire it, and ended up snapping it and then went with oh well, that's what I really meant to do, etc. He and the whole room gasped when he did it. That part is cut out now. Anyhoo, That's my 2 cents, but I don't have any delusions about it changing the mind of those who see Chan as a bonsai God. He could've ripped it out of the pot, threw it on the floor and stepped on it to break it in half and then repotted it in 100% broccoli in a supermarket bag and you guys would still be ooohing and aaaahing.
I don't see him as bonsai God at all but I don't see him as a charlatan either. So what if he tried to bend the branch and snapped it. Sure he could have wrapped it and bent it properly but he didn't like the straight branch with the "trident" branches at the end. I can totally see what you described where he nonchalantly tried to bend it without any preparation and it snapped. I would not ooh or aah at any such thing but I wouldn't call him a charlatan after just that.
 
I don't see him as bonsai God at all but I don't see him as a charlatan either. So what if he tried to bend the branch and snapped it. Sure he could have wrapped it and bent it properly but he didn't like the straight branch with the "trident" branches at the end. I can totally see what you described where he nonchalantly tried to bend it without any preparation and it snapped. I would not ooh or aah at any such thing but I wouldn't call him a charlatan after just that.
Fair enough, Boss. Clearly, Chan was very skilled in the past. Now his whole shtick is how fast he can do a tree, he takes great pride in taking a tree that has been neglected for 20 years and "restyling" it in 20 minutes. I know this, because he brags about it in literally every single styling video. His approach makes him a Charlatan to me *right now*. If he doesn't have the presence of mind, or care enough to do something properly at this point, then he is no longer what he used to be. This is not just one stray example, there are tons like it. I wouldn't fault the guy for breaking a branch once, shlt happens, but he makes a habit out of this crap and then beats his chest after
 
Except, as I mentioned, the video has been edited. He had decided to bend the branch and wire it, and ended up snapping it and then went with oh well, that's what I really meant to do, etc. He and the whole room gasped when he did it. That part is cut out now. Anyhoo, That's my 2 cents, but I don't have any delusions about it changing the mind of those who see Chan as a bonsai God. He could've ripped it out of the pot, threw it on the floor and stepped on it to break it in half and then repotted it in 100% broccoli in a supermarket bag and you guys would still be ooohing and aaaahing.
I would be the first one to say I do not use Peter as a teacher for what I do. That however does not mean he does not know what to do. But absolutely no reason for name calling and poison spewing. As before, please show you know much better what to do from your own work, before you call someone a fraud.

And as said, in the very beginning of the video he indicated that the branch was unworkable and probably not possible to bend. And later, he goes on to say that the best tree is the smaller one. If he tries to go for a cascade, sure, but against better judgement. It did not work, as expected. And this is the only point, I would not have approached the bend that way. One CAN bend branches. But it is not the way Peter works, from what I can tell. He prefers to get rid of big stovepipes, and rebuild using smaller branches. Which in a way is a better way of building bonsai in my view anyway.

If you do want to do big bends, some prepwork is required.
 
I would be the first one to say I do not use Peter as a teacher for what I do. That however does not mean he does not know what to do. But absolutely no reason for name calling and poison spewing. As before, please show you know much better what to do from your own work, before you call someone a fraud.

And as said, in the very beginning of the video he indicated that the branch was unworkable and probably not possible to bend. And later, he goes on to say that the best tree is the smaller one. If he tries to go for a cascade, sure, but against better judgement. It did not work, as expected. And this is the only point, I would not have approached the bend that way. One CAN bend branches. But it is not the way Peter works, from what I can tell. He prefers to get rid of big stovepipes, and rebuild using smaller branches. Which in a way is a better way of building bonsai in my view anyway.

If you do want to do big bends, some prepwork is required.
required.
I wouldn't call Charlatan name calling, but that's fine. I am indeed "new", as it were. I don't claim to have the skills that Chan once had. This fact does not however make me blind. No other Bonsai master I have seen treats trees this cavalierly, prides himself and brags about the speed with which he mutilates his trees in nearly all his videos, etc.... So there is a frame of reference other than my own lack of expertise. The internet is full of examples of people that don't beat their chest. Let's take Nigel, as he's been discussed in this thread. I wouldn't consider him a master, but he's lovely to watch. I don't use his approach for anything, I don't even find a good portion of his trees attractive, but I love his videos and he takes his time and discusses everything he's doing, his failures, etc. Other actual masters do the same, explain everything, take a long time, have assistance with what they're doing, prep their material (as you mentioned) etc... Not, "aaaahhh, here's this tree I butchered, hear me rawr, as you can see, this wonderful styling only took me 20 minutes and already the tree looks amazing"
 
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Fair enough, Boss. Clearly, Chan was very skilled in the past. Now his whole shtick is how fast he can do a tree, he takes great pride in taking a tree that has been neglected for 20 years and "restyling" it in 20 minutes. I know this, because he brags about it in literally every single styling video. His approach makes him a Charlatan to me *right now*. If he doesn't have the presence of mind, or care enough to do something properly at this point, then he is no longer what he used to be. This is not just one stray example, there are tons like it. I wouldn't fault the guy for breaking a branch once, shlt happens, but he makes a habit out of this crap and then beats his chest after
Fair enough. I see your point. I must admit I haven't seen many of his recent videos either. I've seen a few that that I liked but those may have been from a while back. You are certainly have a right to your own opinion.
 
not to mention... he did a video in the last 30 days where he went back to a handful of trees that were worked hard, maybe this one even, and showed how great they came out and his decision making worked out on them - some time after the procedures.

i cant stand people who are cocky and obnoxious, unless they have serious merit behind it, some objectivity, pudding if you will (like if someone inherited 1 million or 10 million from their dad and appreciated -grew- it to 10 billion, for a 10,000% or 100,000% ROI -return on investment- amazing numbers) i love objectivity like that. this man -Peter Chan- bleeds experience that spans decades, amazing, and his work ethic and love for the world as well are noticeable. great business man is icing on the cake for me also, love that (i am very pro business, priv sector, pro military too) id say if you cant understand that when watching his videos, or thinkin about it by the numbers objectively, the books, the galleries, the quantities, the awards, the views, the money, the years, decades, etc. than its your problem. you have a right to your opinions on it though, its just telling to me, about character assessment and ability to process numbers.


to each their own - no worries. the man is a legend i believe, and he has the metrics to back it up





found this
He moved to the UK in 1963 and started experimenting with Bonsai in 1967 when ceramics was his main hobby.

Peter Chan
Trained originally as a professional Electrical Engineer, he worked in the UK Electricity industry and also as Energy Policy adviser in the UK Department of Energy for just over twenty years. He gave up his 9-5 job in1986 to turn his hobby of Bonsai into a business venture. Today, his nursery ‘Herons bonsai’ is the UK’s premier Bonsai nursery.

Peter is known throughout the world by the many books he has written. His first book –‘Bonsai. the Art of Growing and Keeping Miniature Trees’ was published in 1985 and is still in print. His other books include ‘Bonsai Masterclass’, ‘Choosing and Growing bonsai’ and the Readers Digest book –‘Bonsai Masterclass’. Many of his books have been translated into seven or more languages. Innumerable Bonsai enthusiasts world-wide have been introduced to the art of Bonsai through one or more of his books. He has also written a Japanese Garden book as he is also a Japanese garden designer and maker. On his eight acre nursery, he grows most of the Bonsai that the company sells. Maples and other deciduous trees are among his favorite species.

Quick facts​

Appeared at these events: N/A

Appeared in these magazines: N/A

Awards: Many awards including: Gold Medal at the Chelsea Flower Show (total of 21 gold medals), Most Prestigious Award from the Association of British Bonsai Artists, Roll of Honor Award from the Federation of British Bonsai Societies

Books: "Bonsai - The art of growing and keeping miniature trees", "Bonsai Secrets", "Bonsai Masterclass", "The Complete Book of Bonsai - An Inspirational Guide", "Creating a Japanese Garden", "Choosing and Growing bonsai", "Bonsai Basics"

More information about Peter Chan​

He has won 21 Gold Medals at Royal Horticultural Society Chelsea Flower Shows, was Chairman of the British Bonsai Association (1980-1987), founding member of the Federation of British Bonsai Societies and patron and sponsor of the Bonsai collection at the RHS gardens in Wisley, UK. He has appeared on radio and television on many occasions to talk and demonstrate Bonsai and still demonstrates and judges at Bonsai shows. Peter’s other interests are Cycling (he was Asian cycling champion in ’63), Swimming (he is a qualified swimming instructor) and a Ballroom and Modern Jive dancer.
 
Except, as I mentioned, the video has been edited. He had decided to bend the branch and wire it, and ended up snapping it and then went with oh well, that's what I really meant to do, etc. He and the whole room gasped when he did it. That part is cut out now. Anyhoo, That's my 2 cents, but I don't have any delusions about it changing the mind of those who see Chan as a bonsai God. He could've ripped it out of the pot, threw it on the floor and stepped on it to break it in half and then repotted it in 100% broccoli in a supermarket bag and you guys would still be ooohing and aaaahing.
Doesn't make any difference. That kind of thing isn't uncommon when styling a tree.

I hardly see Chan as a "god." he is what he is. He's not a particularly outstanding artist, nor is he the "charlatan" you seem to think he is.

It seems you've not had much experience actually styling larger stock to really have a grasp of what's going on here. FWIW, understanding is more than half the battle. FWIW, yews are extremely resilient bonsai material. Their wood can be flexible enough to do drastic bends on thicker limbs. Snapping off an attempted drastic bend is not all that unusual. Work some larger stock, see what your results are...
 
not to mention... he did a video in the last 30 days where he went back to a handful of trees that were worked hard, maybe this one even, and showed how great they came out and his decision making worked out on them - some time after the procedures.

i cant stand people who are cocky and obnoxious, unless they have serious merit behind it, some objectivity, pudding if you will (like if someone inherited 1 million or 10 million from their dad and appreciated -grew- it to 10 billion, for a 10,000% or 100,000% ROI -return on investment- amazing numbers) i love objectivity like that. this man -Peter Chan- bleeds experience that spans decades, amazing, and his work ethic and love for the world as well are noticeable. great business man is icing on the cake for me also, love that (i am very pro business, priv sector, pro military too) id say if you cant understand that when watching his videos, or thinkin about it by the numbers objectively, the books, the galleries, the quantities, the awards, the views, the money, the years, decades, etc. than its your problem. you have a right to your opinions on it though, its just telling to me, about character assessment and ability to process numbers.


to each their own - no worries. the man is a legend i believe, and he has the metrics to back it up





found this
He moved to the UK in 1963 and started experimenting with Bonsai in 1967 when ceramics was his main hobby.

Peter Chan
Trained originally as a professional Electrical Engineer, he worked in the UK Electricity industry and also as Energy Policy adviser in the UK Department of Energy for just over twenty years. He gave up his 9-5 job in1986 to turn his hobby of Bonsai into a business venture. Today, his nursery ‘Herons bonsai’ is the UK’s premier Bonsai nursery.

Peter is known throughout the world by the many books he has written. His first book –‘Bonsai. the Art of Growing and Keeping Miniature Trees’ was published in 1985 and is still in print. His other books include ‘Bonsai Masterclass’, ‘Choosing and Growing bonsai’ and the Readers Digest book –‘Bonsai Masterclass’. Many of his books have been translated into seven or more languages. Innumerable Bonsai enthusiasts world-wide have been introduced to the art of Bonsai through one or more of his books. He has also written a Japanese Garden book as he is also a Japanese garden designer and maker. On his eight acre nursery, he grows most of the Bonsai that the company sells. Maples and other deciduous trees are among his favorite species.

Quick facts​

Appeared at these events: N/A

Appeared in these magazines: N/A

Awards: Many awards including: Gold Medal at the Chelsea Flower Show (total of 21 gold medals), Most Prestigious Award from the Association of British Bonsai Artists, Roll of Honor Award from the Federation of British Bonsai Societies

Books: "Bonsai - The art of growing and keeping miniature trees", "Bonsai Secrets", "Bonsai Masterclass", "The Complete Book of Bonsai - An Inspirational Guide", "Creating a Japanese Garden", "Choosing and Growing bonsai", "Bonsai Basics"

More information about Peter Chan​

He has won 21 Gold Medals at Royal Horticultural Society Chelsea Flower Shows, was Chairman of the British Bonsai Association (1980-1987), founding member of the Federation of British Bonsai Societies and patron and sponsor of the Bonsai collection at the RHS gardens in Wisley, UK. He has appeared on radio and television on many occasions to talk and demonstrate Bonsai and still demonstrates and judges at Bonsai shows. Peter’s other interests are Cycling (he was Asian cycling champion in ’63), Swimming (he is a qualified swimming instructor) and a Ballroom and Modern Jive dancer.
He certainly is an accomplished individual.
 
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