The "Rules" of bonsai

[kakejiku]

Hopefully, this thread will promote respectful discussion!

Now, some "rules" are definitional. Like the height of a Shohin is 8 inches, max. If the tree height above the pot is 9 inches, it's not a Shohin. Why 8 inches? Why not 7? Or 9? I have no clue.

A postulation or guess, is that 8 is considered a lucky number in Chinese and Japanese culture.
Although slightly less well-known, eight is also a lucky number. This is due to its shape – 八. Called suehirogari (末広がり), it's lucky because it widens at the bottom which reminds one of prosperity and growth. Seven is also lucky, but nine is considered unlucky because the pronunciation of the number nine also mimics the word suffering.

 

[Adair M]

In fact their art isn't called "Pejing". That is not a word. The Chinese call their trees Penjing.

Thanks! Spelling is not my strong suit!

To my eye, Chinese Penjing look different than Japanese Bonsai. Penjing are usually more angular. Or so it seems to me.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

i think they are both nice.. but none of the 2 is great.

Wow - tough crowd
I enjoy viewing them both
Even if the lowest branch was shortened in the 2nd pic I would still enjoy it.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I have absolutely nothing to add to this thread other then the fact that those highly refined "pine tree" styled azaleas really float my boat, and I'll take them over a "bush" styled azalea every day and twice on Sunday.

I second that motion!

 

[Adair M]

Azalea bonsai in Japan is somewhat controversial.

The bonsai "purists" don't consider them bonsai! Lol!!!

In fact, there are separate Satsuki bonsai associations and clubs. The "bonsai people" and the "Satsuki people" don't really mix. There's some overlap, there are Satsuki at Kokofu-ten.

The Satsuki enthusiasts grow them primarily as a vehicle to display the flowers. Not really so much to represent a tree. To that end, they will space the branches of their specimens a little farther apart do that the flowers will not bunch up under the branch above when they open. They also tend to grow them taller, more columnar to better display the flowers. Since it's a flower display, most have relatively thin trunks relative to the height. And taper of the trunk is less important. DjTommy's first tree is a typical example. They'll grow out a whip from a cutting, let it grow quickly to be about 2 feet tall. Then wire it to put in some curves, and then use whatever branches that appear when it buds back.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

That's what they say about ficus too

Those purists types.

 

[MACH5]

@ Mach5,

I really like your tree, the variation of colours in that picture make it really interesting... do you have a pic with it in full foliage?

Thanks SK. Here is an older one that I liked.

 

[crust]

Simply because two languages have different words for something doesn't mean they are different things. What we call a fork in the US they call a tenedor in Spain, but that doesn't mean it is a different thing. We call tenedors forks and they call forks tenedors. After all, if English and Spanish had all the same words then they wouldn't be different languages.
Likewise Japan has pejing, which are referred to as bonsai in Japanese, and China has bonsai, which are referred to as pejing in Chinese. Same thing, different words.
I was using bonsai as a loan-word, encompassing Bonsai, Pejing, Cay Canh, etc., because for whatever reason when the concept was imported into the English language, the Japanese word was chosen to represent the concept rather than inventing a whole new word for it.
If there is some other English word that I should use to encompass the practice of placing trees in shallow pots to control their growth for the purpose of displaying them, let me know, but I'm not aware of it.

Actually, there are a few English words for bonzo, none have made it into Webster yet, but soon, here are a few: Wontiki, Blabulona, Standork, and Fontasaurus, just to name a few. These have been coined over time by obscure rural practitioners. Here is how they are used, "I am working late dear, can you water the Wontiki for me?" , or "I have WAY too many Blabulona", or "I spent 7 hours wiring that Standork pine and my hands are numb". All this just becomes a series of natural daily references for someone tending a garden full of Fontasaurus. In fact, I just came in from a couple hours of twiddling in the Bonzo compound.

 

[Adair M]

That's what they say about ficus too

Those purists types.

There are amazing ficus in Southeast Asia. In the tropics.

Everyone has favorite varieties, and types that they're less fond of. I don't do tropicals. I have friends that have wonderful tropicals. Just not my thing.

I have another friend who does almost all deciduous. He does not have a pine. (Doesnt make any sense to me! Lol!!!). Then again, I have almost all pines! I'm sure he thinks I'm nuts!

 

[Adair M]

Actually, there are a few English words for bonzo, none have made it into Webster yet, but soon, here are a few: Wontiki, Blabulona, Standork, and Fontasaurus, just to name a few. These have been coined over time by obscure rural practitioners. Here is how they are used, "I am working late dear, can you water the Wontiki for me?" , or "I have WAY too many Blabulona", or "I spent 7 hours wiring that Standork pine and my hands are numb". All this just becomes a series of natural daily references for someone tending a garden full of Fontasaurus. In fact, I just came in from a couple hours of twiddling in the Bonzo compound. View attachment 121445

Beware the Jabberwock, my son..

 

[wireme]

here are some japanese style trees (whatever japanese style means anyway)
some peoples interpretation of japanese trees is a little off i think
View attachment 121399 View attachment 121400 View attachment 121401 View attachment 121402

I've often felt that way too, that when discussion of Japanese styling comes up it is often absurdly underrated regarding credit for diversity and imagination.

 

[Random User]

@ Mach5,

Mmmmm, ya... I see where you went wrong. I suggest you ship this offending specimen to me right away so it's influence won't negatively effect your current and future work... nice try, BUT, I'd politely submit that, "this was not your best work", please try again.

 

[namnhi]

Good read to see where community stands on this topic.
Rules or guidelines has to take the back seat if you want creativity to flourish. For me when working on a material, I go for what I think it will look good. I'll let my creativity go wild. Each tree is unique. When working on tree, if the first thing you do is try to apply all 'rules' of bonsai you have learnt then you most likely will have a cookie cutter tree. One follow the rules too closely, it safe to say, that person is not very creative. Let creativity do the work first, the outcome most likely will be much more pleasing to your eyes than let the rules dictate what you need to do. Often time the outcome of the creativity most likely already have some of the rules in it.
Good day.
NN

 

[MichaelS]

here are some japanese style trees (whatever japanese style means anyway)
some peoples interpretation of japanese trees is a little off i think
View attachment 121399 View attachment 121400 View attachment 121401 View attachment 121402

I agree. No Japanese style but modern Japanese trends. (and not everyone there either as I was reading about an old Shimpaku aficionado complaining about the way they are treated today) This concept of naturalism is nothing new. There are many Japanese examples of it. From what I see, most are from older publications. The new trend is to manicure down to the last leaf and this gives too much artificiality. The Hinoki above is a very old tree which I have seen before. It is a beautiful example of a naturalistic tree. I would hazard a guess that in the hands of some ''modern'' growers, it would be ruined by too much wire and flattening of the branches. Wire should not need to touch this tree ever again IMO.

 

[Maloghurst]

The Chinese art of penjing is actually miniature landscape. I think Japanese style is incorrect as it's kind of grouping all Japanese as identical. There is classical style and naturalistic and people prefer both.
I am an artist and as stated many times previously the "rules" are very important for a beginner. They are the fundamentals that allow you to be creative.
All art forms have them.
Picasso could draw beautiful, anotommically correct human form at age 11. He didn't start by drawing "children's drawing". He deserves all the credit he is received as an artist.
Classical styled bonsai will never be gone. But new styles will continue to progress.
Did people stop listening to Bach and Beethoven?
As a relative beginner I actually enjoy learning the fundamentals of bonsai. Though I prefer the naturalistic style.
I would love to learn more and also some examples of breaking the rules!

 

[Potawatomi13]

As a relative beginner I actually enjoy learning the fundamentals of bonsai. Though I prefer the naturalistic style.
I would love to learn more and also some examples of breaking the rules!

Meeting or training with Ryan Neil should be high on your personal bucket list. He trained with Master Kimura because such a maverick he was in Japan. Having worked with him for 4-5 years his trees and learning could be very edifying.

 

[PiñonJ]

Meeting or training with Ryan Neil should be high on your personal bucket list. He trained with Master Kimura because such a maverick he was in Japan. Having worked with him for 4-5 years his trees and learning could be very edifying.

I can vouch for this. I've taken the first year of classes in his Elongating Species course and I'm going back next year for the level 2 course. With each class my skills increase exponentially. By the way, he told us that Mr. Kimura has returned to traditional bonsai!

 

[Adair M]

I can vouch for this. I've taken the first year of classes in his Elongating Species course and I'm going back next year for the level 2 course. With each class my skills increase exponentially. By the way, he told us that Mr. Kimura has returned to traditional bonsai!

Good for you! Long term study with the same Master allows you to learn the subtleties!

 

[MACH5]

I can vouch for this. I've taken the first year of classes in his Elongating Species course and I'm going back next year for the level 2 course. With each class my skills increase exponentially. By the way, he told us that Mr. Kimura has returned to traditional bonsai!

I think there is great value in doing so. Returning to traditional or classical bonsai can keep your work "honest". Picasso did the same after many years exploring cubism, returned for a period of time to classical drawing taking inspiration from ancient Greek art producing drawings that were delicate and exquisitely executed.

On a separate note, I myself like to keep and work on classical bonsai as well as work on trees that sit outside the more traditional lanes. Outside of that, I am also working on ideas that perhaps are more experimental and not sure how they would be defined as. Artistically, working on all these different classification buckets is important to me.

 

[chicago1980]

I can vouch for this. I've taken the first year of classes in his Elongating Species course and I'm going back next year for the level 2 course. With each class my skills increase exponentially. By the way, he told us that Mr. Kimura has returned to traditional bonsai!

Are you learning on his material?