fourteener
Omono
Cutting them off is just an aesthetic thing. Doing it at the end of the season uses their photosynthetic resource as long as possible before eliminating it.
Spruce/Picea Abies
- Thread starter BobbyLane
- Start date
fourteener
Omono
I would think at this time of year, any branch without a bud on it is a goner. The branch you have in your fingers is certainly weak and probably down low on the tree, or at least shaded out. More light will make it stronger.
I fertilize a lot. Weekly application of Miracle Grow. As it buds back, I just keep trimming off extension. Starting from the top down. Being more aggressive on the top in terms of foliage reduction, let's more light in and causes lower branches to come to life. Some of that depends on the final image you want to create.
I fertilize a lot. Weekly application of Miracle Grow. As it buds back, I just keep trimming off extension. Starting from the top down. Being more aggressive on the top in terms of foliage reduction, let's more light in and causes lower branches to come to life. Some of that depends on the final image you want to create.
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BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Ah ok thanks for that, I wasnt sure about miracle gro because of the higher nitrogen content, i didnt know if it would be beneficial to conifers. ive given it a sprinkle of green dream slow release organic, i also have some organic slow release miracle gro in the cupboard....
Yes the branch pictured is at the bottom, ive only applied wire on the lower branches. ive heard of folks having trouble with spruce after wiring, apparently they dont like being wired?
re the image, i want to work with the current image and i see this as the front of the tree, backbudding will determine what will happen in the future but i like the natural airy image, would like to get some more deadwood in there, stripped branches, Jins without going over the top. possible shari in the lower trunk, will think on it..
Yes the branch pictured is at the bottom, ive only applied wire on the lower branches. ive heard of folks having trouble with spruce after wiring, apparently they dont like being wired?
re the image, i want to work with the current image and i see this as the front of the tree, backbudding will determine what will happen in the future but i like the natural airy image, would like to get some more deadwood in there, stripped branches, Jins without going over the top. possible shari in the lower trunk, will think on it..
I have a spruce question for you all--so you pinch back new unfurling extensions in the spring before they harden--then they sprout new unopening buds and back buds, which brown up and remain set over the season. So now its fall and the tree is covered in buds--lots of buds in some places and plenty back buds but could use more. I know it is depending on whether the tree is in refinement or development how do you guys see how the set bud management goes. Example: Development stage
- thin outermost buds in fall?
- thin outermost buds in spring?
- leave all buds and let it grow thick and cut back next fall?
- cut branch back to a few inner buds eliminating most buds?
- a different scenario?
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I've only heard they have to be constantly wired.
Who had the twisted one with the wire on it that sprung back? The abies box store one.
These are all spruces I'd love to have!
Great stuff guys!
Sorce
Who had the twisted one with the wire on it that sprung back? The abies box store one.
These are all spruces I'd love to have!
Great stuff guys!
Sorce
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Crust, Yours is back budding like mad! I do think that different species of Spruce back bud more than others, time will only tell with mine. I think Fourteener would better be able to answer your questions
fourteener
Omono
I try to keep the triangle form that Spruce branches grow in. When I prune back in an effort to reduce extension I pick a point on the main branch and trim back with the triangle in mind. I'd probably do at least a minimal amount of bud selection. When buds grow in the crotch up high on the tree, sometimes I choose the bud instead of the branch in an effort to curb inverse taper.
When it comes to timing, thinning terminal buds in Spring might be better if you are trying to disperse growth evenly. Remove terminal buds now, you'll just get new terminal buds next spring.
If my tree becomes unhealthy or when I repotted and found a weaker root system than I thought, I let it all grow unchecked for a year to get back to health. Leaving them all to grow can serve a purpose. It took awhile to push back the design. After that though and you have to keep an eye on your wiring if you let it grow unchecked for a year. Branches don't thicken up fast when you are plucking, but they do when you aren't.
As far as choice 4, I've always kept a good amount of green on even as its budding back. Especially on a branch down low.
fourteener
Omono
Nice buds by the way!!
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Be interested to know when you guys re pot your Spruce? Ive seen on WP blog he re pots in aug and some experts re pot in spring....
fourteener
Omono
Spring.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
I think this tree is in fact Picea Glauca/dwarf alberta spruce, I found some examples on the internet, the tree has branches that naturally want to grow upwards..so i wont alter that too much...
klosi
Shohin
Few of these seem as picea glauca conica? I've heard they seem very appropriate to be a good bonsai material but they turn out to be anything but.
Anyway what's you spruce latin name Bobby? Our european spruces are easy to back bud but hard to style. To achieve a natural old looking tree takes many years of training the branches. And as sorce said they need the wire almost all the time if you want to keep the shape. The branches have a very low "memory" effect, but it does seem to help if you make small curves and bends, so the branch lignifies the bends and therfore it stays in that position.
I'm sorry if I explained that a bit strange.
Anyway what's you spruce latin name Bobby? Our european spruces are easy to back bud but hard to style. To achieve a natural old looking tree takes many years of training the branches. And as sorce said they need the wire almost all the time if you want to keep the shape. The branches have a very low "memory" effect, but it does seem to help if you make small curves and bends, so the branch lignifies the bends and therfore it stays in that position.
I'm sorry if I explained that a bit strange.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Few of these seem as picea glauca conica? I've heard they seem very appropriate to be a good bonsai material but they turn out to be anything but.
Anyway what's you spruce latin name Bobby? Our european spruces are easy to back bud but hard to style. To achieve a natural old looking tree takes many years of training the branches. And as sorce said they need the wire almost all the time if you want to keep the shape. The branches have a very low "memory" effect, but it does seem to help if you make small curves and bends, so the branch lignifies the bends and therfore it stays in that position.
I'm sorry if I explained that a bit strange.
Yes thats what i said in my last post, they all are, including mine
Yes ive read on WP's blog he sometimes has to keep wire on for 3-4 years. I dont plan on using much wire on the tree, the species Picea glauca has naturally upward rising branches, you can see this in my tree and in the images i posted. im quite happy to leave it natural, will use minimal wire, guide wire on the lower branches as its pretty un obtrusive and can stay in place for a while.
The european Spruce/picea abies/norway spruce isnt easy to source, you either have to collect one yourself or from a private collection. but saying that, I do have a shohin sized picea abies i got from Kaizen, i think he grows them on the nursery. the ones we see on WP's blog are all collected trees, some of them already grow with downward branches from what ive researched
I read this article on bonsai4me:
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Spruce have a poor reputation as bonsai. Difficult to style, difficult to encourage the branches to set into new positions through wiring and difficult to create good ramification with little if any prospect of backbudding.
Unfortunately, the ubiquitous Picea albertiana 'conica' has not helped matters; very often picked up by beginners looking for nursery trees to style into bonsai, the Alberta spruce has been known to cause great annoyance and frustration!
However, there are some excellent examples of Spruce bonsai in Europe and Japan; the genus as a whole has some excellent qualities and very often, it is just a question of learning how to work with Spruce and its foibles so that the best can be made of this tree.
This article is primarily based on my experience of Picea albertiana and Picea pungens though these techniques can also be applied with degrees of success on all vigorous Picea/Spruce bonsai.
Spruce vigour
The techniques described in this article assume that your Spruce is vigorous and that care is taken when applying these techniques to weak lower and inner branching.
The easiest way to judge the vigour of a Spruce and its individual branches is to look at the number of new buds that have formed, very often at the tips of the foliage, in late Summer.
Branches with no buds are very weak and are likely to fail/dieback in the following Spring. These are best left alone.
Branches with one bud are weak and will tolerate minor wiring and needle plucking.
Branches with two or more buds are strong to very vigorous and all of the techniques described can be applied.
Timing
Spruce are sensitive to timing. In particular, styling and wiring must not be carried out while the tree is in active growth as branches are very likely to fail and dieback.
In the UK, extensive styling is best carried out from late Summer (August) through to the first frosts around November.
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klosi
Shohin
Sorry missed that
I would maybe disagree with this. Spruce is rather easy to back budd, semi easy to collect but hard to style. I've seen some extraordinary bonsai spruces. Including WPs and other bonsai pros. I think they are very beautifull and can be very old looking and mysterious when styled correctly. One of my fav species.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Today i decided to wire all the primary branches on this one, trying to get it looking more conifer like and less deciduous like, ive got all the branches hitting horizontal now which has also allowed more light into the tree, this should help to promote back budding in the future.
clevetromba
Shohin
Wow! you have crazy prolific backbudding!
clevetromba
Shohin
Bobby,
I've had a Norway Spruce completely die because I wired it too early in the year. I believe Harry Harrington's site recommends wiring in fall and winter only.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Spruce are sensitive to timing. In particular, styling and wiring must not be carried out while the tree is in active growth as branches are very likely to fail and dieback.
In the UK, extensive styling is best carried out from late Summer (August) through to the first frosts around November. Harry Harrington
Walter Pall also does all his Spruce styling from june to end of aug...he's based in europe and the climate in germany isnt much different from London.. have a look at this link from his blog and scroll down to the comments section- http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/new-ezo-spruce.html
I only fully wired my tree 5 days ago 31 aug
what month in the year did you wire yours?
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barrosinc
Masterpiece
Similar timing and idea of black pine decandling? Is heavy fertilizing previous to it a good idea?
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Similar timing as Scots and mugo. After candles unfurl into shoots and before they set buds. Here the time is approximately between July 4 and August 15.
I always feed heavily.
