Source for JWP on its own roots?

[Leo in N E Illinois]

So someone other than me, if you really want to know, should ask Talon Buchholz.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

While I respect and appreciate the many voices saying “learn to graft” “find a good graft” “graft graft graft” I specifically started this thread because I want an ungrafted goyomatsu. I’m well aware of the plethora of graft styles and the many ways to hide crappy grafts, this is neither what I asked for nor what I want, but thank you. I don’t really know how to make it any more clear without going ALL CAPS on y’all…(please take that with the humor intended). Please stop with the graft talk, save it for another thread.

You just have to do the "leg work", and inquiries at various nurseries until you find seedlings for sale. Below are a few I have used in the past, they may or may not have P. parviflora in stock, put in a reservation if it is an out of stock item. You can always refuse it later. There are other seed companies, just use Google and find them. But seed is the one way to find JWP that are not grafted. As mentioned before, the uneven colors and growth habits are the reason that seed grown JWP are not usually stock in USA nurseries. Uneven color meaning one plant might be grass green, one might be dark green and only one or two out of a hundred will have the desirable rich blue color that landscapers and most bonsai growers want. Similar with needle length and whether needles twist or are straight. For bonsai we want short, straight needles preferably a rich dark green to blue-green color. These traits come together only in a few out of a thousand seedlings. So when you plant seed, plant several large flats worth, because only a small handful will really be what you want for bonsai.

Seed can be had or reserved for next year at :

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[tanlu]

It's not that seedling are easily lost they are quite hardy in the seed pots. You tend to lose them when they are older and you make mistakes in potting up, mix, watering, too much phosphorous etc. One of the biggest mistakes I made was to over-pot. One inch or so of root room in the new pot is plenty. If you can, raise them in clay pots until you want to display.
They are very easy to germinate as long as you have viable seeds. (do the sink or float test) I use sand/gravel and bark as a sowing medium with mycorrhizae from a healthy tree mixed in and planted into a shallow clay pot with a good aeration layer of coarser particles (7-10mm) followed by slightly finer particles (5 to 7mm) and then your sowing mix which should be from 1 to 4mm size. They do very much better in clay as it absorbs extra water from the medium and keeps the seedling happy. You need to cold stratify them for 3 months at 4C In vermiculite or similar after soaking. Then planted in spring. The stratification medium must be barely damp and no more. That's important. Germinate in the sun and cover the pot with some mesh to protect against birds and mice. Leave in full sun and wait 2 years before lifting and potting up singly. For you, now would be a good time to buy them and store them dry in the fridge in an air tight glass jar until stratification time arrives. They will survive for years that way so you can sow them over several years if you end up with too many. They are always in demand and you won't have any trouble moving them. Also, don't worry about long needles or bad colour or other features because it's easy to graft desirable cultivars on to them. (when they are about 3-4 years old). They are very slow compared to black pine stocks but the growth is finer and more like the original selection.

@MichaelS It sounds like you’ve worked with ungrafted JWP more than most ppl on this forum. I share Yashu’s sentiment about grafts and have been growing JWP seedlings for 15+ years (learning from my mistakes) and have finally gotten 1 of those trees to the point where I can focus on refinement. It’s currently growing in a terracotta pot, which I believe this species appreciates because they like consistent moisture but need the clay to absorb the extra water and keep the roots cool via evaporative cooling. You had recommended “growing them in clay until ready for showing.” Is growing in terracotta pots available at US plant nurseries what you meant?

It seems to be working so far for me, but I’m only in year 2 after growing it this way. Before that, I grew it in the ground, root pruning and branch shoot pruning every few years.