Some advice on this new tree please

[Steve C]

Just picked up this honkoi cypress today, been eyeballin' it for the past month at the local bonsai nursery. For some reason I just loved the look of it but took me a month to finally decide to buy it. All I have done so far is root prune it a tad and get it into some better draining soil.

I have never had a honkoi cypress before so this is my first and I don;t want to do much to it till I know for sure what direction to go with it. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. From what I have read so far about the honkoi cypress, they do not back bud on old wood, and you should pinch rather than cut or else the cutt will turn brown?

From what I "think" I see so far.....the low branch (one I have my finger on) should probably be removed? And the top needs some thinning perhaps? Since this is only my 3rd year in bonsai, any advice is appreciated.

Thanks
Steve

 

[mat]

It's pretty tall. I'm curious as to why you think you should remove the low branch. Low branches are generally coveted on pre-bonsai material. help thicken the base, some where to chop back to for taper, etc.

 

[sorce]

Yeah,
When I saw the pic with your hand on it I was thinking the text was gonna read more, "this is where I want to build my tree from".

Long term, good project.

I dig it.

Sorce

 

[Steve C]

Just seems quite low on the trunk to me is all. As I said though this is the first honkoi cypress I have had so I'm probably just not seeing what I should be looking for on it since this species is new to me.

 

[Mr GeaRbOx]

Great looking tree.
I understand what Steve is saying about the lowest branch. When I've read about proportions and styling on the various websites (or books) that provide an overview of bonsai (in addition to sales) It's usually stated that your first branch should be about 1/3 up the tree (I'm not stating that is right or wrong. I'm just repeating what is said.) I also see a decent gap between that branch and the next, which happens to be coming out as a parallel. I'm guessing those things are what drew your attention to that branch. And if your thinking the eventual apex is about or just below the lattice (in the first pic) that would be about right. What wouldn't be right is the proportion of the thickness of the trunk to the height of the tree and only a little taper. In the final design it may be removed but for now the lowest branch should be left alone, as mat said, to help thicken the base and keep your options open if you decide for a big trunk chop or something. Your design impulse is correct, but just like myself, more long term thinking is constantly in order.

As for opinions on direction, this tree as it sits I would go for a formal upright or slant style. This little guy has pretty nice radial branching all the way up. Unless you are looking to do some major construction, those styles are already within the tree and will come across as more natural. (the only reason I wouldn't recommend the informal upright is there just too many and not enough formals or slants. Hey, this is opinion, right? ) I'm no authority and I'm sure others will have better ideas but I hope this has helped some.

~GeaR

 

[0soyoung]

From what I have read so far about the honkoi cypress, they do not back bud on old wood, and you should pinch rather than cut or else the cutt will turn brown?

Indeed they do not backbud. The will sometimes pop new growth from the base of a branch where it meets the trunk, though.

Pinching is bad. If you look closely at a frond (not the right word, but I cannot think of the correct term right now) you will notice that it is just a bunch of green threads that split occasionally have of shoots. They grow only at the tips of these threads. It is better to trim out selected threads that to shear it or pinch it. In this respect hinoki foliage is similar to junipers and arbovitae (tsuga).

Hinokis are quite easy to bend until they get quite thick. You've got a very tall skinny tree with a rather straight trunk. I look at it an I think of wrapping the trunk in raffia, then some heavy wire, and bending it dramatically. Rediculous stuff like modern twisty juniper trunks could be possible. Certainly very sexy sweeping curves can be done. So, were it mine I would be looking at all the bonsai photos I can find to decide what kind of trunk shape I will bend it into come this fall or early next spring. Then you won't have problems damaging the cambium in the process.

Have fun!

 

[jk_lewis]

What no on has said, and should have, is that this tree is MUCH too tall and too thin. There is NO taper in the trunk. If it were mine, I'd chop it as shown here and make that side branch into the new apex.

THEN, I'd probably put it in the ground or a shallow grow box for 2-3 years to gain some girth and taper.

 

[JudyB]

In any event, when you have a tree that has a trunk in need of thickening, you should always consider leaving the lower branches on the tree. These can serve as sacrifice branches that can always be cut off later if it doesn't fit into the design. In the meantime, they will help to fatten the trunk below them.

 

[Steve C]

I don't not plan to chop it that short and make the side branch the new apex. Although I appreciate the input I simply do not want to take this one that far down because I personally like the way the way a lot of the branching is and don't want to lose that because that's actually what drew me to it in the first place to buy it. I do want to shorten it but I'm thinking more along the lines of finding a new apex about 6-8" down from the top I think (about where GeaR mentioned). While I do agree it is currently too tall, I do like trees that are a bit taller than most here seem to like but that's just my tastes.

 

[Cypress187]

They will probably tell u "grow it fat, and chop it low." (that should be a one-liner or a song.)

 

[Steve C]

This is somewhat what I have in mind perhaps. Again I'm sure it'll still be rather tall for most here, but I'm thinking of chopping it at the first red line, then wiring the circled branch into the new apex. Then wire the branches at a more downward angle. Just something I was thinking. Again all/any input is certainly appreciated. I take no offense to any input or criticism at all. Just trying to hopefully combine the input from you guys with my own personal taste and maybe end up with a tree I can enjoy.

 

[MaverickLancer]

If we take the old practice of setting the height at no more than 6 times the caliper of the trunk (green), you can probably cut somewhere around the (orange) line. If you want to maintain more branch structure, you might be able to get away with cutting above the next branch. Any higher and the proportions begin looking really skewed.



If you really want to keep the height, maybe consider a forest planting to distract from the relatively thin trunk and give an illusion of width? I've never done one before, but many of the forest plantings I've seen seem to make good use of taller/skinnier trees.

 

[Steve C]

Spent a few hours with it today. I'm still learning so obviously it still needs a lot of work, and I know it's probably still too tall for most peoples taste here But I ended up taking it down at least a full 8"-9" and pulled a new apex up. Right side branches will need to grow more amongst other things, but for now I am somewhat content with it to wait and see how it comes along. Who knows, down the road I may take it down much shorter as I gain more experience.

 

[erb.75]

My hinoki has really hard wood that is old wood and really labile wood on younger branches, even thick branches. I was thinking literati when i first saw it. If you don't do literati, chop it down. Either chop off foliage for literati, or chop off foliage and trunk and branches for a nicer tree. At least wire those branches downward.

Just my 2 cents.

By the way, hinoki's don't back bud, and when they put out new growth, the older greenery dies away and turns brown over the winter. Or maybe I just am not skilled and had a cold winter. Mine seems to be growing well still but it's a challenge with hinoki's to keep them away from "pom pom" foliage on the tips of branches, and to have long bare branches. Don't do a lot to them in one season. And by that I mean if you repot during one season, don't do anything else major.

 

[Steve C]

I tried getting them down a bit more but it sure seems like if I go anymore they will snap

 

[erb.75]

i bought some non-stick tape from Lowes (it's like electrical tape that's clear and only sticks to itself). Wrap it like raffia, and you can bend those guys pretty good

 

[erb.75]

hard to not snap branches though!

 

[Steve C]

Managed to get them angled down a bit more. Far as I dared for fear of breaking. Probably could use a bit more downward angle but I'm happy enough with it for now. I am thinking about removing the branch with the red x on it though. It is actually an off shoot of the branch below it (both come out of the same spot) so that should probably go correct?

 

[jk_lewis]

Yes it could. You also should wire about every 3rd branch toward the back of the tree. It is very two dimensional now.

 

[GrimLore]

I'd be happy to help but would need to see a straight on photo and a top view looking straight down. Not showing it straight on from the front makes it hard to guess what it really looks like.

Grimmy