just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
I actually got the wire and never wired it....
My Main Tree Purchase for the Year....JBP Advice Needed Please
- Thread starter just.wing.it
- Start date
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
I'll knock off those branches then and get a picture.
I think i have a long term image in my head.
I think i have a long term image in my head.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
I cut back the stumps from before and the few branches I didn't want.
I'm going to put some cut paste on now.
I'm going to put some cut paste on now.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
I agree it is probably safe to have removed the larger branches at this point. And I would do so if they were creating an issue with development. Another consideration would be if the tree would recover better if they were left for the growing season and then cut back in the fall when you are trying to set the tree up for back budding and wiring it out! The stronger the tree, the stronger the response one can expect. I tend to keep as much foliage as possible after repots and collection for that reason. More needles, more photosynthesis, more root growth.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
I agree with that philosophy for sure.
But there are plenty of buds....actually more buds on the smaller branches that I favored, than the bigger branches.
Thank you for your input, its greatly appreciated.
I feel pretty comfortable doing what I did today.
The side of the root mass that had visible mycorrhiza (or however that's spelled) remained untouched. I think this ugly tree has a bright future.
As for decandeling, I'll post pics as it grows this spring and hopefully @Adair M can tell me whether its proper or not to do so....but for now, I like the idea of not decandeling this year to gain strength. Now that the larger branches have been removed, the tree can gain vigor in the branches I want, and back bud easily later on.....I hope.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
I think I should remove the old needles now....? They're yellowing a bit.
Most of the new candles are opened, except a few lagging ones. I assume that is due to the HBR job....slowing some candles down.
There were a couple dead buds that never extended, removed them.
I think I should go ahead and thin to 2 now as well.....?
Thoughts???
Most of the new candles are opened, except a few lagging ones. I assume that is due to the HBR job....slowing some candles down.
There were a couple dead buds that never extended, removed them.
I think I should go ahead and thin to 2 now as well.....?
Thoughts???
Bu-Jetjet
Mame
Nice progress so far! I removed the old needles on mine this past weekend. But mine is less established than yours, so my worries are less.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Cool looking tree there! From this angle it looks like you could lose the trunk and make a nice shohin with that low growth.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
I went ahead and cut the whorls back to 2....Looks better now, I think.
Still unsure about removing the old needles....it seems like the yellowing ones are ok to pull off, but am I safe to take all of the old ones?
Still planning on not decandling this year.....
Still unsure about removing the old needles....it seems like the yellowing ones are ok to pull off, but am I safe to take all of the old ones?
Still planning on not decandling this year.....
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
I remove old needles in sites where I do not wish a possible back bud or the needle has had it. Otherwise if I could use some back buds I will leave needles as long as possible. Increases the chance of a backed in that site when the others are thinned out! In sections where I keep a few needles I select the side needles, removing the top and bottom ( less desirable back bud sites) . This also thins the section for greater exposure to sun and promotes more back buds. Also, remember to wire branches down and open up to encourage back budding. Just a few thoughts
Bu-Jetjet
Mame
That’s what I was contemplating this weekend too! I’ll ponder on it some more and maybe cut it off...
Bu-Jetjet
Mame
I second what River’s Edge recommended. It’s ok to pull the old needles off. My teacher once told me that when I’m doubt, the earlier you pull off the old needles, the earlier your tree can recover and spend energy in promoting new growth. I’m pretty sure I paraphrased, but that’s the gist of it...
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Indeed. Thanks for the reply! Its the long ones hanging down from the bottoms of branches that are really bothering me.I remove old needles in sites where I do not wish a possible back bud or the needle has had it. Otherwise if I could use some back buds I will leave needles as long as possible. Increases the chance of a backed in that site when the others are thinned out! In sections where I keep a few needles I select the side needles, removing the top and bottom ( less desirable back bud sites) . This also thins the section for greater exposure to sun and promotes more back buds. Also, remember to wire branches down and open up to encourage back budding. Just a few thoughts
Will do.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
It is important to remember that reducing needles for balancing is important in later stages of refinement. Thats when we start counting pairs and matching the count to balance out strong, medium and weak areas. I prefer to use every advantage to create additional interior foliage in the early stages so that includes keeping as many options as possible. For your tree I would still be trying to create more foliage in the interior. I would not be considering chopping down and working with the lower portion at this stage. You will improve the results by wiring open the branches and bringing the tips down at this point.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Yeah.
I am not chopping anything.
I was talking about the other person's tree there...
My tree, I'm keeping the branches I have now, plus a sacrifice at the top.
I have a question about that, the sacrifice branch.
Should a sacrifice branch never be decandled?...for future reference.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Also, do you consider some gentle wiring to be ok at this time of year?
I was planning on waiting until Autumn.
I was planning on waiting until Autumn.
Japonicus
Imperial Masterpiece
I do most of this in Fall except the over under needles, however I remember Ryan
saying when 1st acquired, to thin to the weakest branch any time of year.
I still do most of that in Fall, and yes, let the sacrifice leader run like a horse.
saying when 1st acquired, to thin to the weakest branch any time of year.
I still do most of that in Fall, and yes, let the sacrifice leader run like a horse.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
Yes gentle wiring during decandling is fine. It is simply to open up and create a bit of downward direction to aid back budding! This is not creating up/down/side to side wiring for future design, nor changing major position or direction. Simply opening up for better exposure to sun and air movement!
The sacrifice branches and sacrifice leaders are for growth, you want to encourage extension. No decandling is required nor would it provide any benefit. The only pruning or needle reduction should be to reduce shading or lateral growth so the sacrifice portion focuses on extension. I normally keep one or two lateral shoots just in case a top breaks or dies off for some reason. Otherwise I keep the central candle and one medium candle at the tip. I will attach a picture to show what my sacrifice leader typically looks like. This is a younger tree, the area above the orange tape is the apical sacrifice leader with one extra lateral shoot, the branch just below the orange tape on the right is a secondary potential sacrifice leader. This allows me to stage reduction of the top for two separate opportunities for extra back budding lower down rather than counting on one time effect. You should be able to see that side shoots and needles have only been removed if they shaded the lower portion of the tree where design growth is important to keep. The exception is the sacrifice leader with all but one side candle removed. The second picture shows the lower growth created from removing the first stage of a sacrifice leader and the secondary sacrifice leader is still thickening the trunk at this point and will create extra back budding when it is removed. Note in the second picture I have not yet thinned the new sacrifice leader for extension. The picture was just taken prior to that work being done! Hope the comments and pictures address your questions.
Attachments
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Thank you kind sir!
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
If your not "de-candling" removing some older, downwards hanging needles and a rudimentary wiring would do well. As mentioned, maybe leave some older needles where you might like some back-budding.
If it was mine, I might be tempted to wait until next spring to cut back into THIS years needles as opposed to a fall pruning. Can't really hurt to have a full season of building vigor to ensure an exuberant response to spring/summer work?
Don't get greedy, ensure this tree is vigorous and ready to work. You've already re-potted, no need to rush along until it's fully re-potted and humming.
Good potential in this JBP. Take your time.
If it was mine, I might be tempted to wait until next spring to cut back into THIS years needles as opposed to a fall pruning. Can't really hurt to have a full season of building vigor to ensure an exuberant response to spring/summer work?
Don't get greedy, ensure this tree is vigorous and ready to work. You've already re-potted, no need to rush along until it's fully re-potted and humming.
Good potential in this JBP. Take your time.
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