Selling Trees and Tree Prices

[Paradox]

I also believe that good material can be found a local landscape nurseries BUT you need to do A LOT of looking. Good material is rare at these places, great material almost non existent..almost.

You need learn what good material is and be willing to walk away empty handed when everything there just isnt worth the time so you dont end up disappointed a year or two later when you realize that "just have to buy something " tree is no good for bonsai.

The key is to visit several nurseries often and at different times and really look at the trees and I mean REALLY look at them. If your fingers and fingernails arrent dirty when you leave, you arent doing it right.

 

[Vance Wood]

I also believe that good material can be found a local landscape nurseries BUT you need to do A LOT of looking. Good material is rare at these places, great material almost non existent..almost.

You need learn what good material is and be willing to walk away empty handed when everything there just isnt worth the time so you dont end up disappointed a year or two later when you realize that "just have to buy something " tree is no good for bonsai.

The key is to visit several nurseries often and at different times and really look at the trees and I mean REALLY look at them. If your fingers and fingernails arrent dirty when you leave, you arent doing it right.

Actually this applies to every aspect of acquiring material for bonsai. Very often there are those who make a pilgrimage to the mountains for a spectacular Yamadori that will settle for a mountain version of a Yamacrumby for the lack of something better. Not wishing to come home empty handed many will seize what ever is available. Sadly this is often true of most other sources but not as sad as in Yamadori.

 

[Deleted member 17587]

I'm new as well. First off, don't waste your money on trees that have already been formed and are basically a finished product. You want to be a artist, not a collector. And even if you do buy a tree that is worth $300, can you say that you have the skills yet to maintain it properly. I sure don't. I'm choosing to be patient, which to me is what Bonsai is really all about. I think the instant gratification thing is what gets people into trouble.

Contact or join your local Bonsai Society. They will have all the local resources you need regarding any local nurseries that sell proper stock of starter trees. I bought a $10 Juniper and a $10 Jade tree from my local nursery. That allowed me to re-pot them and start initial wiring. We've got to crawl before we can walk. I've also checked all my local garden center's but have yet to find anything I like, except a Loropetalum which well grown out and gave me a chance to do some shaping.

You want something that you can get started on that is in a growing phase. I found a couple of nice Yamadori Ponderosa Pines form the Rockies. But the problem with Yamadori is that once you get the tree home, it must sit for at least a year or two or three. So your not really getting to practice any of the basic skills other than watering. (which is important)

Just my 2¢.

 

[michaelj]

I asked this question of my teacher, and he gave me the old "it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it" explanation, which sounds less useful than it really is, because there do seem to be some "going rates" for certain types of trees. But the more auctions and sales you attend, and the most nurseries you visit, and the more finished eBay auctions you look at, the more you'll see that there are a huge number of factors that go into pricing, and once you get into the pricing of finer trees, different sellers and different buyers have different takes on each of those factors, making pricing somewhat unpredictable under any circumstance.

 

[Adair M]

Interesting comment: Artist vs Collector...

You can be both!

Remember in bonsai, there are no "finished" trees. Until they die. The Japanese language bonsai magazines often show "progressions" of how a particular tree has changed over the decades. That's right, I said decades.

Brian Van Fleet has done an excellent job of documenting several of his trees over the course of several years. They change a lot. Just imagine what his progressions will look like 30 years from now!

Those of you who are fairly new to the hobby and say "I'll never buy a finished tree, I'll grow my own", may want to reconsider. Why? You learn things from maintaining "finished" trees that you will not get to do with trees under development. It's kinda like starting a race, but having no idea where the finish line is. Which direction do you run? Is it a sprint? Or a marathon?

And, there's this: Maintaining a "finished" tree isn't just keeping it pinched back, watered, and repotted every couple years. Unfortunately, many nice trees get purchased, and then ruined because of the ignorance of the owner on how to properly keep a finished tree healthy and vigorous. You have to be constantly be encouraging growth near the trunk, or else it will get leggy. Branches and pads have to be constantly cut back and regrown. You must learn how to detail wire to keep it's shape. Thin when necessary. Let it run to maintain health. Sometimes, it needs a drastic restyle.

Is it rewarding to take a stick in a pot and make an attractive bonsai? Sure! But it's also rewarding to keep a tree that's as old as your grandfather alive, healthy, and showing it's age and character. For hopefully, generations to come!

 

[jeanluc83]

I’ll echo the advice from hear and other places “get the best material you can afford”. This is especially true for beginners. It is very hard to take a stick in a pot and make it into a world class bonsai. It is even harder for a beginner. A crappy tree is just going to become an old crappy tree. Even if you do know what to do it may only become a good tree. It is much easier to make a great tree from a good tree than a great tree from a crappy one.

Another school of thought is that any tree can become at least good with enough time. This is all well and good but what is your time worth. You might find a seedling for $10 where a tree of the same species that has been developed for 5 years might be $110. Is your time only worth $20 a year.

Remember in bonsai, there are no "finished" trees.

And just because it is “finished” does not mean it can’t be changed. When it comes down to it all trees are just raw material. Some are just less “raw” than others.

 

[Deleted member 17587]

You want to be a artist, not a collector.

Sorry for this. Obviously once you have more than one tree you have a collection and the act of acquiring a tree is called collecting. So I misspoke. I as a web designer I realize that trees like websites are never finished and require work/maintenance as long as they exist.

Also, the trees I bought from my local nursery were not sticks in a pot. They are decent sized starters of high quality trees that are of varieties specifically used in Bonsai. I've already made many mistakes I'm sure on these trees. I definitely don't trust myself spending over $100 on a tree that has been around longer than me with my skill set. I think I'll be ready for that eventually.

 

[Zach Smith]

The "should I buy bonsai or get free stuff on my own" thread comes around just like clockwork about once a year. And all of the contributions to the thread each and every time are exactly correct! With 10 bonsai enthusiasts you tend to get 10 different "right" approaches to how you should acquire your material. But with that said...

Once you get past the proverbial sticks in pots, bonsai are truly unique objects and the fact is no one person has access to every species in every size, age and style. This being the case, once you're done scouring your own backyard you either have to travel around the country looking for those species you want that don't grow near you, scour the non-bonsai nurseries for suitable material (a real chore), or buy small material to grow on or propagate, or get seeds and grow from there, or, you guessed it, buy the material from a (hopefully) reputable dealer. Every approach is right, and it's a purely individual thing. Trying to convince someone that to buy a bonsai is some sort of unforgiveable sin is, frankly, ridiculous. "To each his own" never was truer than in the wonderful world of bonsai.

For what it's worth.

Zach

 

[barrosinc]

Check this, tons more info

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?14261-how-much-do-you-spend-on-a-decent-to-good-tree

 

[Adair M]

May I add one more thought?

Seek out a mentor.

Having access to study, take lessons on/with, see superior trees are worth their weight in gold.

Sure, the one day workshops are good. But there's only so much you can learn in a day. Seeing how trees change/develop over the seasons, over the years, really makes a difference.

Two years ago, I began the Intensive series at Boon's. And, wow, what a difference it has made in my bonsai. Not only with my own trees, the advice I'm able to give now comes with a good amount of hands-on experience working on superior trees.

To anyone starting out, my advice would be to start something like this. I know it sound silly for a beginner to start an "Intensive Series", but actually, it's better to learn how to do it right so that you don't have to "unlearn" bad habits and faulty information. There are several artists/practitioners who provide the "Intensive" training sessions. Choose one who matches your bonsai goals. I chose Boon because he specializes in JBP, although he's equally as good with other material. JBP is my favorite, so I went with him. Ryan Neil and Mike Hagedorn also do the Intensives and are excellent.

 

[michaelj]

You might find a seedling for $10 where a tree of the same species that has been developed for 5 years might be $110. Is your time only worth $20 a year.

The extent to which that matters depends upon why someone is doing bonsai. If the goal is to have great trees to show, as quickly and cost-effectively as possible, your advice is spot-on. If the goal is to take joy in the process, the question of what your time is worth matters less. I'd rather have five $20 trees to work on for the next five years than have one $100 tree that is five years farther along, because that's what I enjoy. Others might not enjoy that, and would see my approach as a way to waste five years.

 

[Don Blackmond]

This is the age old debate, and there is no wrong answer, as has been stated already in this thread.

The real question is: why do you do it? You can buy trees in any state of development and you can collect trees from yards or nature. It all comes at a cost, in time and/or money. Why you do it will determine the cost you are willing to incur.

 

[Potawatomi13]

The "should I buy bonsai or get free stuff on my own" thread comes around just like clockwork about once a year. And all of the contributions to the thread each and every time are exactly correct! With 10 bonsai enthusiasts you tend to get 10 different "right" approaches to how you should acquire your material. But with that said...

Once you get past the proverbial sticks in pots, bonsai are truly unique objects and the fact is no one person has access to every species in every size, age and style. This being the case, once you're done scouring your own backyard you either have to travel around the country looking for those species you want that don't grow near you, scour the non-bonsai nurseries for suitable material (a real chore), or buy small material to grow on or propagate, or get seeds and grow from there, or, you guessed it, buy the material from a (hopefully) reputable dealer. Every approach is right, and it's a purely individual thing. Trying to convince someone that to buy a bonsai is some sort of unforgiveable sin is, frankly, ridiculous. "To each his own" never was truer than in the wonderful world of bonsai.

For what it's worth.

Zach

To add a little to this It should be remembered that Bonsai growers, Masters, enthusiasts, etc in Japan and likely everywhere else buy, trade or otherwise acquire fully developed bonsai all the time. This is generally a very expensive proposition with many of these trees and someone that doesn't have good plant "survival" skills ie a green thumb should stick with much lass valuable material.

 

[sbarnhardt]

In sitting here reading over these posts, I can see myself in a lot of the less desirable traits. One, and there are many more, that come to mind quickly about myself is patience or, more specifically, the lack thereof. And that certainly has got to be one of the worst traits to have with this isn't it? Take your time. Read, study, evaluate, ask those who know more about it than you. Now, if "I" can just learn to take my own advice!!

 

[GrimLore]

When you whittle down everything from over 200 plants in various sizes and progression to 10 it is safe to spend the larger dollars if you fancy a nice tree. By then you know what to look for in a specimen, the specimens needs, and how much it is worth to you...

Grimmy

 

[M. Frary]

I don't have patience but I have learned to wait.

 

[Vance Wood]

That is nailing to head. Bonsai does teach us to wait but not necessarily patience. Sometimes patience can turn into lazyness. I would rather depend on waiting than procrastinating.

 

[M. Frary]

Laziness is easy to achieve. But right now the waiting for spring is killing me.

 

[Vance Wood]

A nail in the head again, your right. Things here are just now starting to show signs of growth. It has been a bummer spring my friend.

 

[sbarnhardt]

I stand corrected Mr. Wood and Mr. Frary!! "Waiting" it is!!