Quick Help on an impulse Oak purchase

[Johnathan]

So I'm at a garden center sitting in the truck. Which do you guys think is the better impulse purchase on these oaks?

They are both about 10ft tall and I would ask the garden center to cut them down before traveling back to OKC

The first one has slight movement and good bark... the other has unique design but maybe to much going on with the roots

Going back to the hotel to mull it over.

On a side note any jap maples do well in full sun? Bloodgood?

 

[JudyB]

Bark, bark, bark. hands down.

 

[MACH5]

I agree, without a doubt the one with bark if you must buy one.

As far as maples I believe bloodgood cultivar is resistant. I personally do not like them as they tend to look rather coarse. If you can find other ones such as arakawa or sharp's pygmy, they are MUCH better choices for a variety of reasons including resistance to sun scorch. You are in Oklahoma so it may be difficult to keep even the most sun resistant cultivars in good shape throughout the growing season.

 

[Rambles]

I've gotta second JudyB on the bark

 

[Johnathan]

Well.... thanks everyone, I went with the bark. I believe it is a bur oak. The other was a red oak and I read they don't reduce as well. We cut it down for the ride to okc. I think I will cut it down again mid august. Bare root and repot into something else depending on how much root mass is there.

Any suggestions on how far to cut it down???

 

[BethF]

You made the right choice. Don't know about your climate, but where I live (in the middle of S.C.), you're not going to get much back budding after a late summer cut. Just let it be right now and acclimate to its new situation. Mid to late winter next year, cut it back to where to where you want the next growth to occur. Good luck and keep us informed. Oaks are cool trees.

 

[Johnathan]

Just let it be right now and acclimate to its new situation.

Thank you for responding! Are you also suggesting not to repot now and possibly repot in early spring? Cut back next fall?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Personally think cutting back once this late in season is enough. Needs to grow leaves to put food into roots for Winter.

 

[sorce]

Lol! The pot says reduced!
Severely!

Ask @rockm and @Zach Smith .....

I watched a forest demo from the World Bonsai Convention last night...where dude defoliated the trees (was it 2 weeks ago?) A week before putting together the forest....so he could reduce the roots safely for the composition.

You're kind of in that position to safely work the roots a bit. But ask knowledgeable Oakers!

I personally wouldn't chop it back any further either.
Let the buds determine how much more of that nice bark you have to lose.
Unless you intend to further grow it out...(doubt it)
That trunk fits a fem slender taller tree anyway!

Um Purdy!

Tag me when Rock and Zack come on,
I wanna know what they say!

Sorce

 

[Zach Smith]

Leave the tree alone for the remainder of 2017. It's been chopped, will bud back out and you want to let that growth harden off, but you don't know the rest of what happened to this tree so far this year. Best not to give it any more challenges.

I'd seal the chop, too.

Good luck with your oak!

 

[rockm]

I agree with Zach. Let it be. Stop making plans for it for this year. We're at the tail end of the growing season. I would carefully consider NOT having the nursery chop it. Don't know if you can manage such a tall tree in a vehicle though.

Chopping it now will force it to use the reserves its building up to get it through the winter. New soft shoots will be killed off with the first frosts. Come November, mulch it into a protected spot in the backyard, let it get hit by frosts and a couple of shallow freezes before that though. That's important for winter dormancy.

 

[Johnathan]

@Zach Smith @rockm @sorce thanks for the response everyone.

@rockm sorry bro, its already been cut. Couldn't do the 3 hour ride with a tree so tall.

@sorce I don't mind it growing out more, As it is now there is not very much of a taper at all, or movement for that fact.

I am just going to clean all the leaves and other debris from the top of the soil and just leave it in the container that its in. Maybe put a thin layer of DE on the top to aide in moisture retention for the upcoming August heat. And just let it recover from the chop until next fall and then repot it...

Now, the guy at the center recommend something called "Super Thrive" he tried to get me to buy some claiming it was guaranteed to help the tree back bud. I kindly passed. Anyone ever heard of this stuff?

 

[rockm]

good to pass on the Superthrive. It's crap and isn't worth the money. As for a second chop, that should wait until you see where you get new shoots appearing that can be used to form the initial part of the apex. It's a bad thing to chop a tree without seeing where initial buds have formed AND TAKEN to growth. So, keep an eye out next spring for those buds on the trunk. THINK about how tall you want the final tree to be. The equation of where you get a bud forming that can be used as the apex and your idea of the final height of the tree is where you will make the "final chop." This decision can take up to several years, BTW. I've found that most people tend to chop too high--exactly where depends on what you want the final image to look like. The shorter the tree, the more the lower trunk becomes its focus. A short stout tree will tend to look more ancient than a tall one...

 

[_#1_]

I'm embarrassed to say I have a small bottle of Super Thrive sitting on the shelf. No need for that.

Why not slip to a bigger pot now? I've read that could be done anytime of the year. There's still time for it to grow new roots. And also aids in insulation over the winter.

 

[Johnathan]

good to pass on the Superthrive. It's crap and isn't worth the money. As for a second chop, that should wait until you see where you get new shoots appearing that can be used to form the initial part of the apex. It's a bad thing to chop a tree without seeing where initial buds have formed AND TAKEN to growth. So, keep an eye out next spring for those buds on the trunk. THINK about how tall you want the final tree to be. The equation of where you get a bud forming that can be used as the apex and your idea of the final height of the tree is where you will make the "final chop." This decision can take up to several years, BTW. I've found that most people tend to chop too high--exactly where depends on what you want the final image to look like. The shorter the tree, the more the lower trunk becomes its focus. A short stout tree will tend to look more ancient than a tall one...

I definitely want to implement taper and movement. As it is now, the current height is probably what I would ideally like it to be. I'd want it to be a bigger tree just out of respect for oaks. The pic below will give a better idea of size comparison.

Does Angle of chop play a factor? The guy asked if I wanted it cut at an angle or not, I opted for just a flat cut.

Why not slip to a bigger pot now? I've read that could be done anytime of the year. There's still time for it to grow new roots. And also aids in insulation over the winter.

Its a pretty big tree and I just don't have anything bigger to put it into at this time. and I don't want to disturb the roots. It doesn't appear to be pot bound, I will know more once I clean off the top later today. The pic below will give a better idea of size comparison.

 

[rockm]

I definitely want to implement taper and movement. As it is now, the current height is probably what I would ideally like it to be. I'd want it to be a bigger tree just out of respect for oaks. The pic below will give a better idea of size comparison.

Does Angle of chop play a factor? The guy asked if I wanted it cut at an angle or not, I opted for just a flat cut.



Its a pretty big tree and I just don't have anything bigger to put it into at this time. and I don't want to disturb the roots. It doesn't appear to be pot bound, I will know more once I clean off the top later today. The pic below will give a better idea of size comparison.


View attachment 155181

FWIW, this isn't a big tree. I think you're planning on tree that is waaaay too tall, especially for an oak.

Down the road, if this were mine, I would make the "final chop" at about 8 inches from the soil. that will give you room to develop an apex of three or four more inches (after subsequent chops on the new leader(s) ) This trunk is far too thin and even to make a tall convincing bonsai. Oaks are known for short, powerful trunks--the thin one you're aiming at won't have that image.

Flat cuts are fine for first cuts. Don't worry about angels at this point, you're after budding in good places.

Below is a picture of my collected live oak. I know this is mostly apples to oranges, since this is a collected oak, but the ratio of my oak's trunk and height is roughly about what you're looking for -- shorter trunks without long, tall extensions, tend to look more powerful.

 

[Johnathan]

FWIW, this isn't a big tree. I think you're planning on tree that is waaaay too tall, especially for an oak.

Down the road, if this were mine, I would make the "final chop" at about 8 inches from the soil. that will give you room to develop an apex of three or four more inches (after subsequent chops on the new leader(s) ) This trunk is far too thin and even to make a tall convincing bonsai. Oaks are known for short, powerful trunks--the thin one you're aiming at won't have that image.

Flat cuts are fine for first cuts. Don't worry about angels at this point, you're after budding in good places.

Below is a picture of my collected live oak. I know this is mostly apples to oranges, since this is a collected oak, but the ratio of my oak's trunk and height is roughly about what you're looking for -- shorter trunks without long, tall extensions, tend to look more powerful. View attachment 155203

This is exactly what I am wanting, This is such a beautiful tree.

Could this movement and taper realistically be achieved with the tree I have?

 

[Johnathan]

This is another reason while I was wanting to do another more drastic cutback.

 

[rockm]

This is exactly what I am wanting, This is such a beautiful tree.

Could this movement and taper realistically be achieved with the tree I have?

You could get some movement and taper in the tree you have. It will require a substantial (and if you've not done it before, possibly frightening) reduction of the trunk. To induce believable movement in the trunk, you will probably have to chop to four inches or less from the soil and then grow out a series of leaders using buds pointing in appropriate directions, then another grow out, another chop, etc. This takes time and effort. It will also do away with the old bark on the initial chop, making the grown out sections look very "different" than the thick barked base.
This take time to change. The branches on mine still have bark that doesn't match the trunk. The apex is beginning to change over to old looking bark. I've been working on this tree for over 20 years now. It's a long term project.

 

[Johnathan]

@rockm
I justified this purchase as being for my 36th birthday... I'm in this for the long haul... 20 years would be something to be proud of for sure.

Do I chop back to 4 inches in mid August or the sooner the better? Because we don't want it to back bud higher than the next "movement area"....

Does this idea change anything below the surface? Reduce and Repot?