Pyracantha Air Layer

[Cypress187]

I removed my air-layers with much less roots, they seem to still be alive.

 

[ConorDash]

I removed my air-layers with much less roots, they seem to still be alive.

Seem to still be alive... Confidence building . Lol. I'm not too worried about it living once removed, I think I am confident in the amount of roots it's built.
Just thinking now that I actually need a pot big enough for it.. That could be a problem.

Anyone have suggestions for a mix to use? I guess an inorganic clay granule type mix is good for root development.

 

[ConorDash]

Yes

Depends on the species. It is quite dramatic on pines and chamaecyparis.

Yes, many times; but I have a vasectomy which makes 'doing it' be just for pleasure.

I read that thread and replied to it. Was very informative and very interesting stuff, thank you

 

[ConorDash]

@0soyoung and @AlainK

I'll do this separation tomorrow I believe, any last bit advice for how much of the future tree to cut off with it, or potting advice?
I'm going with a fairly big (but probably not as big as you would call big because it is all I currently have) pot. And I believe, will be going with an inorganic mix of cat litter, I could in some moss if you think it'd be a good idea, but the root ball will have its moss still on it, as I won't disturb it when I pot it.

 

[ConorDash]

Well, deed is done.

The roots when separating it..



The whole branch that I cut off, berries too (which would be nice to grow on the tree after a few years of training to be bonsai)


Potted and cut back a bit...


Cut back the foliage more..


My main question is, should I cut back the foliage even more so, because I believe in my previous air layering of my Chinese elm, I left too much foliage on top and the roots couldn't support it, resulting in 90% of its leaves dropping and at the moment I don't know whether it'll live or not. Live and learn. Don't wanna make the same mistake here.. Any thoughts?

And of course thoughts on what to do with it, whether the pruning is good as is or more, before I leave it till next year...
Or could even just chop it completely down... Has next to no taper right now so, that's an option.
@sorce what do you think sir?

 

[0soyoung]

My main question is, should I cut back the foliage even more so, because I believe in my previous air layering of my Chinese elm, I left too much foliage on top and the roots couldn't support it, resulting in 90% of its leaves dropping and at the moment I don't know whether it'll live or not. Live and learn. Don't wanna make the same mistake here.. Any thoughts?

I would keep it in shade and/or a humidity tent. My logic is

• gotta have leaves to grow roots
  • a lot of photosynthesis can happen in shade
• water demand results from low relative humidity (i.e. if rH=100% there is no water demand)

If the leaves are weepy, you're probably okay - but you've got to act quickly if they start to droop.

 

[ConorDash]

At the moment it's about 80% humidity with temperatures getting 25c for next few days. It is in the shade, and will remain there.
I've no such tent, so outside will hopefully do.

I've never known much about humidity or how it works, what it does..

What's the difference between weepy and droopy?
And when you say act quickly, you mean water? Or cut foliage?

Thank you for the comment @0soyoung , this is a big learning experience for me so I'm bleeding you of your knowledge , hope you don't mind!
The mix I'm using is cat litter, clay granules. All inorganic but good load of organic moss remaining on the roots from air layer (don't wish to disturb those roots and risk damage). I'm not experienced with the mix, so that's a learning curve too. Using a chopstick to determine water needs and colour of the mix, feel of it.

 

[0soyoung]

I've never known much about humidity or how it works, what it does.

The atmosphere has a capacity to hold water vapor. When it is holding as much water as can be, the rH=100%; rH=0% when there is absolutely no water vapor in the air.
Water exists at the foliage because of capillary action in the xylem (wood). It then evaporates in the process of transpiration if the air can take up more water vapor. Evaporation from the foliage then tugs at the column(s) of water presenting a demand for water to the roots. If the roots cannot supply this water, the foliage will desiccate and then the tree's damage response is provoked to seal the xylem and (voila!) dead twig/branch/tree).

What's the difference between weepy and droopy?

No difference; just different words hoping to convey a vague, though simple, idea. Not to worry if the leaves look normal. If they sag or look like they do when you forgot to water the mother plant, they 'sag' or look weepy or droopy or flaccid.

And when you say act quickly, you mean water? Or cut foliage?

I mean do something to reduce transpiration losses --> increase rH. The roots cannot keep up, so watering the roots won't fix it. Air is cooler and more humid in shade. If you have a garden mist sprayer, turn it on. Make an enclosure like a terrarium (humidity tent) around it. With cuttings a plastic bag or a soda bottle with the bottom cut off works. One needs to affect some kind of support frame to drape a large clear plastic bag or sheets of clear plastic on.

 

[Shima]

The atmosphere has a capacity to hold water vapor. When it is holding as much water as can be, the rH=100%; rH=0% when there is absolutely no water vapor in the air.
Water exists at the foliage because of capillary action in the xylem (wood). It then evaporates in the process of transpiration if the air can take up more water vapor. Evaporation from the foliage then tugs at the column(s) of water presenting a demand for water to the roots. If the roots cannot supply this water, the foliage will desiccate and then the tree's damage response is provoked to seal the xylem and (voila!) dead twig/branch/tree).

No difference; just different words hoping to convey a vague, though simple, idea. Not to worry if the leaves look normal. If they sag or look like they do when you forgot to water the mother plant, they 'sag' or look weepy or droopy or flaccid.

I mean do something to reduce transpiration losses --> increase rH. The roots cannot keep up, so watering the roots won't fix it. Air is cooler and more humid in shade. If you have a garden mist sprayer, turn it on. Make an enclosure like a terrarium (humidity tent) around it. With cuttings a plastic bag or a soda bottle with the bottom cut off works. One needs to affect some kind of support frame to drape a large clear plastic bag or sheets of clear plastic on.

Thanks doctor...... Al's quote is about my pyracantha so I'm afraid to show it!

 

[0soyoung]

Al's quote is about my pyracantha so I'm afraid to show it!

Maybe he should have , but it was Al's response to GBHunter over on the Bonsai Study Group back in 2014. At the time I said

This is profound on the level of Oscar Wilde, Al (e.g., 'Some people bring joy where ever they go. Some others bring joy whenever they go.'). This is a statement that should be the first words of every bonsai demo/tutorial.

I actually think Al nailed the definition of 'good material' if it indeed can be defined.

Now, let's see that pyracantha!!

 

[Smoke]

I don't have a whole lot to say lately....so post away.

 

[ConorDash]

The atmosphere has a capacity to hold water vapor. When it is holding as much water as can be, the rH=100%; rH=0% when there is absolutely no water vapor in the air.
Water exists at the foliage because of capillary action in the xylem (wood). It then evaporates in the process of transpiration if the air can take up more water vapor. Evaporation from the foliage then tugs at the column(s) of water presenting a demand for water to the roots. If the roots cannot supply this water, the foliage will desiccate and then the tree's damage response is provoked to seal the xylem and (voila!) dead twig/branch/tree).

No difference; just different words hoping to convey a vague, though simple, idea. Not to worry if the leaves look normal. If they sag or look like they do when you forgot to water the mother plant, they 'sag' or look weepy or droopy or flaccid.

I mean do something to reduce transpiration losses --> increase rH. The roots cannot keep up, so watering the roots won't fix it. Air is cooler and more humid in shade. If you have a garden mist sprayer, turn it on. Make an enclosure like a terrarium (humidity tent) around it. With cuttings a plastic bag or a soda bottle with the bottom cut off works. One needs to affect some kind of support frame to drape a large clear plastic bag or sheets of clear plastic on.

Thank you, very informative post. That's taught me quite a bit.
i don't think creating a humidity tent, will be feasible for me, unfortunately.
So if these signs of water demand are present, cos the stress on the plant be relieved similarly by reducing the foliage and thus reducing demand on the root system?

 

[sorce]

@ConorDash
0so got you!

It's a odd balance.

Next year, when we start then at the right....a bit earlier time... Balancing gets a lot easier!

Sorce

 

[ConorDash]

@ConorDash
0so got you!

It's a odd balance.

Next year, when we start then at the right....a bit earlier time... Balancing gets a lot easier!

Sorce

If it stays alive of course lol

And we currently have a good high humidity so hopefully it helps with water demand.

 

[Shima]

Maybe he should have , but it was Al's response to GBHunter over on the Bonsai Study Group back in 2014. At the time I said

I actually think Al nailed the definition of 'good material' if it indeed can be defined.

Now, let's see that pyracantha!!

Maybe he should have , but it was Al's response to GBHunter over on the Bonsai Study Group back in 2014. At the time I said

I actually think Al nailed the definition of 'good material' if it indeed can be defined.

Now, let's see that pyracantha!!

Now I see what happened. I didn't get that the quote was on all of your posts and took it personally.
"
Going on 85 years
You?
The pyrocantha?
Both?

The tree contains all the requirements needed to make a beautiful bonsai, it just needs time and technique.
So the real question is, is there any hope of you getting them [it] there?
- Al Keppler
0soyoung, Sep 23, 201

 

[0soyoung]

Now I see what happened. I didn't get that the quote was on all of your posts and took it personally.
"
Going on 85 years

You are a bit ahead of me, but I am still going on. There's still hope.

Now, about that pyracantha of yours ... I'm sure @ConorDash would like to see the future.

 

[Shima]

Now I see what happened. I didn't get that the quote was on all of your posts and took it personally.
"
Going on 85 years
You?
The pyrocantha?
Both?

The tree contains all the requirements needed to make a beautiful bonsai, it just needs time and technique.
So the real question is, is there any hope of you getting them [it] there?
- Al Keppler
0soyoung, Sep 23, 201

The pyracantha. I'm not quite there.

 

[Shima]

You are a bit ahead of me, but I am still going on. There's still hope.

Now, about that pyracantha of yours ... I'm sure @ConorDash would like to see the future.

Just getting set up in the new rain shelter. I'll shoot the pyra tomorrow.

 

[Smoke]

Wish I needed a rain shelter.....

 

[aml1014]

Just getting set up in the new rain shelter. I'll shoot the pyra tomorrow.View attachment 116561

Don't shoot it! We'd love a picture though.


Aaron