Princess Persimmon Fruits

[TN_Jim]

Diospyros virginiana fruit when ripe is amazing. It is so hard to find in the wild though because I think wildlife agree

 

[Kullas]

Both the male and female trees are in our yard so that keeps some of the wildlife at bay.

 

[discusmike]

Wow, never realized there were so many cultivars, I think I need to give them a try

 

[Kullas]

Diospyros virginiana fruit when ripe is amazing. It is so hard to find in the wild though because I think wildlife agree

Mines loaded with fruit this year so there will ample seeds to sprout next year.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Yeah, just don't confuse regular persimmon with princess persimmon.

Princess persimmon fruit is for all intents and purposes inedible. It is extremely tannic and is mostly seed with just a little fruit pulp. If you want to try it make sure to do so when it is almost over-ripe. If it isn't soft, be prepared for a surprise! It won't hurt you... but you won't believe so at first

Regular persimmon (like our Virginia persimmon native) has much larger fruit that is much friendlier to the palate. However it still tends to be tannic and seedy. Think of using it more like a relish or salsa than a sweet fruit, and you will do better. However Japanese persimmon has some non-astringent and non-seeding cultivars that you can truly eat right off the tree. The most popular is Diospyros kaki 'Fuyu' which I had in my landscape in SoCal. No seeds, and a mildly sweet fruit. Interestingly, last winter they were selling Fuyu persimmon fruit at my local Costco

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

My first two fruit are growing nicely!!! This is a self-fruitful variety I got from Ed Clark. He ended up naming the variety "Beni Hime" (red princess).

 

[Canada Bonsai]

My first two fruit are growing nicely!!! This is a self-fruitful variety I got from Ed Clark. He ended up naming the variety "Beni Hime" (red princess).
View attachment 448601View attachment 448602View attachment 448603

It would be smart to name it something else, or maybe 'Ed's Beni Hime' vel sim, to avoid confusion with the true 'Beni Hime' cultivar that has been around for decades.

But it also doesn't need a Japanese name... 'Ed's Red' works.

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

It would be smart to name it something else, or maybe 'Ed's Beni Hime' vel sim, to avoid confusion with the true 'Beni Hime' cultivar that has been around for decades.

But it also doesn't need a Japanese name... 'Ed's Red' works.

You can take that up with him, that's what he told me

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Princess persimmon is the main topic of this thread. There's a older thread on Diospyros virginiana that could be revived or a separate thread started.

Bark on princess persimmon is relatively smooth into middle age, never gets very rough. Bark on American persimmon becomes heavy alligator checked and plated by 25 years. It's rough and pebbled in 7 year seedlings that are ground grown. Of the Diospyros, virginiana definitely has the best bark.

Kaki, Diospyros kaki, has the best culinary fruit. My bias is that virginiana is a close second best if you let it get fully ripe. When fully ripe not only will the fruit be slightly soft, but the calyx on top will twist off easy. If calyx is still firmly attached, don't bite, it will be astringent.

There's a Philippines species of Diospyros that is a local culinary fruit, it's supposed to be quite tasty. Leaves are quite large, so it's not thought about for bonsai.

There are e South Africa species of Diospyros that have smaller leaves, they come from more arid regions. Unfortunately getting seed and or plants has been difficult.

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

I ended up having three fruit, one was a sneaky lil' guy! I was only interested in foliar growth this year, so these fruit were a bonus!!!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Not sure why, but some years some of my females skip fruiting - even though they are on the bench directly next to fruiting ones and receive the same care, sunshine, etc.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

Not sure why, but some years some of my females skip fruiting - even though they are on the bench directly next to fruiting ones and receive the same care, sunshine, etc.

Could it have to do with the synchronization with the flowering of male trees? i.e. some years your male(s) flower(s) and it coincides with some females, other years the same male(s) flower(s) and it coincides with other females?

For this reason I keep 3 strains of male that--when treated identically--flower sequentially. I also have 3 sets of those 3 strains now (9 male plants, 3 strains), so 1 set gets an early start on a heated bench, another set gets a 'normal' start in my greenhouse, and the last set gets a delayed start because I keep them in a cold shaded area. This spring I had males flowering for almost 6 weeks, and I think I could do still better.

edit: of course, the are other factors at play here, I'm just picking 1 obstacle that I was warned about by a propagator in Japan and have tried to resolve using his suggestions.

 

[NaoTK]

I had lousy fruiting in Oregon this year because we had a cold spring and the bees were not active. I hand pollinated one tree though and that is the only fruit I have. If I ever plan to show a tree I will hand pollinate.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Could it have to do with the synchronization with the flowering of male trees? i.e. some years your male(s) flower(s) and it coincides with some females, other years the same male(s) flower(s) and it coincides with other females?

It is certainly a possibility. I thought all my females flowered at about the same time, but next spring I will keep track - and see if the dates correspond with fruiting (i.e. do the earlier or later flowering trees fruit more consistently?)

 

[badatusernames]

Hopefully of interest / helpful

 

[bwaynef]

Each one of these was a different shape, size, or color.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I'd love to find a black one...

 

[Michael P]

A few questions and an observation:

How well does this species grow in the north central Texas climate (hot dry summers, relatively mild winters with occasional cold fronts)? Is there a difference in climate adaptation among different cultivars?

D. virginiana is a fairly common native here. It reproduces by root sprouts and seed. Fruit is eaten by raccoons, foxes, and coyotes and the seed germinates readily from the scat. I once collected seed from coyote scat in the fall, stratified it in the refrigerator, and had almost 100% germination. I wish I'd kept some for bonsai! Based on this, it might help germination rates if the cleaned seeds are soaked in a warm, weak acid bath before stratification.

 

[River's Edge]

I'd love to find a black one...

My black ones are seven years from seed, no fruit so far! Obtained the seed from a vendor at Taikan Ten 2015 .Good growth after the first two or three years. Were slow to take off. Will see how they handle the move to my new location. I am going to start with higher level of nitrogen in the fertilizer regime this spring. basically they are now in 1 gallon pots. Here is a photo of the group this fall along the Northside of my greenhouse.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

How well does this species grow in the north central Texas climate (hot dry summers, relatively mild winters with occasional cold fronts)? Is there a difference in climate adaptation among different cultivars?

I don't know about cultivars, but the generic species did well in SoCal (zone 9b, with hot, dry summers) and are doing just as well in NC (zone 7b-8a, with warm, humid summers).