cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
over 800 siberian elm
Will bring some i to the co2 also!
Will bring some i to the co2 also!
OUTDOOR PROPOGATION USING DIFFERENT HYDROPONIC GROWING MEDIA
- Thread starter cmeg1
- Start date
hinmo24t
Masterpiece
rad! what happened to taking time away from propagation!?
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Automated ebb and flo hydroponics!!!
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
COREANA HORNBEAM & FIELD MAPLE
These are so cool,I will just keep them.The field maple dis not have very high % germination at all.The ones that did germinate look nice and have a dwarf aspect.Perhaps the kelp?
Made mini forest of nearly all the Hornbeam and potted into small fabric pots.Straight grow wool for media.
Potted all the Field Maple….definately some dwarfs in there.They will all need girdled at the base next season since germinated kind of curly.
Nice to keep a few of the plants I grow and watch the seasons change……from scratch.
These are so cool,I will just keep them.The field maple dis not have very high % germination at all.The ones that did germinate look nice and have a dwarf aspect.Perhaps the kelp?
Made mini forest of nearly all the Hornbeam and potted into small fabric pots.Straight grow wool for media.
Potted all the Field Maple….definately some dwarfs in there.They will all need girdled at the base next season since germinated kind of curly.
Nice to keep a few of the plants I grow and watch the seasons change……from scratch.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
AIR-PRUNING
First signs of air-pruning on the 1.5” mini blocks of stonewool.The Siberian Elms of course.I am excited for these.
Kind of cool the tap is instantly trimmed from the VERY getgo.At 1” tall!!!!
I will link these cubes together as they grow to guide the seedling into Raft style bonsai……guide the seedling to another block of stonewool and notch the trunk for roots……these get motherplant formula and will root with ease.
First signs of air-pruning on the 1.5” mini blocks of stonewool.The Siberian Elms of course.I am excited for these.
Kind of cool the tap is instantly trimmed from the VERY getgo.At 1” tall!!!!
I will link these cubes together as they grow to guide the seedling into Raft style bonsai……guide the seedling to another block of stonewool and notch the trunk for roots……these get motherplant formula and will root with ease.
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cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
The aeroponic stuff…..finally potted up
I got very lazy and darn near neglected these in the cloner….although ph was good and I did add amino’s too.The result was quite sturdy girdled seedlings.Roots were everywhere ao I trimmed and layed flat into very shallow fabric pots to start a nice rootpad.We’ll see how they grow.
I discovered it is extremely helpful to have rain fall on leaves regularly as it controls molds and mildews on leaves immensly.
All the seeslings of JM i gre had greymold or something that were u der solid cover for shade.So these are under a constructed lattice pattern that will recieve all the rain that happens.
So here a few trident and green japanese maples.Seedling air-layered in aeroponic cloner.
I got very lazy and darn near neglected these in the cloner….although ph was good and I did add amino’s too.The result was quite sturdy girdled seedlings.Roots were everywhere ao I trimmed and layed flat into very shallow fabric pots to start a nice rootpad.We’ll see how they grow.
I discovered it is extremely helpful to have rain fall on leaves regularly as it controls molds and mildews on leaves immensly.
All the seeslings of JM i gre had greymold or something that were u der solid cover for shade.So these are under a constructed lattice pattern that will recieve all the rain that happens.
So here a few trident and green japanese maples.Seedling air-layered in aeroponic cloner.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
A KEEPER JBP KABUDACHI
Want to start growing and enjoying the seasons…….I soooooo got to start keeping some of these starters and practicing the hobby.
Been through 4 jobs since last November……..covid absolutley sucked!!!
Training for healthcare now and has awesome hours,so totally stoked I will be home more than I work now in this new career!!!
More free time to grow.
Anyways am keeping this one……full on Grow Wool media,quite shallow in a fabric pouch.
Roots seem to be awesome in this media.Honestly it is essentially volcanic stone(basalt rock),never degrades,and really as it gets compacted by thickening roots in the interior or wherever and wadded together for years it just seems essentially akadama to me.I mean akadama breaks down and into a friable sandy substance over the years and trees thrive( from what I read anyways).
This is moist at the get go,but nontheless has vast amounts of air.Especially starters in the mini blocks.The Wool is more water conserving.
For me I can envision entire pots full of the stuff…especially the core of the rootpad and mixed throughout over the seasons.
I mean is quick drying really that essential?
Not if its aerated…in my opinion.
Also is a superior surface media as it will not degrade like orchid spahgnum and gets nicer green colors…….aometimes the orchid spahgnum is horribly ugly…albeit needed to conserve surface moisture in a bonsai pot…stuff degrades too and makes a mess.
CHECK THE ROOTS IN A 2” Grodan Mini-Block!!!
Want to start growing and enjoying the seasons…….I soooooo got to start keeping some of these starters and practicing the hobby.
Been through 4 jobs since last November……..covid absolutley sucked!!!
Training for healthcare now and has awesome hours,so totally stoked I will be home more than I work now in this new career!!!
More free time to grow.
Anyways am keeping this one……full on Grow Wool media,quite shallow in a fabric pouch.
Roots seem to be awesome in this media.Honestly it is essentially volcanic stone(basalt rock),never degrades,and really as it gets compacted by thickening roots in the interior or wherever and wadded together for years it just seems essentially akadama to me.I mean akadama breaks down and into a friable sandy substance over the years and trees thrive( from what I read anyways).
This is moist at the get go,but nontheless has vast amounts of air.Especially starters in the mini blocks.The Wool is more water conserving.
For me I can envision entire pots full of the stuff…especially the core of the rootpad and mixed throughout over the seasons.
I mean is quick drying really that essential?
Not if its aerated…in my opinion.
Also is a superior surface media as it will not degrade like orchid spahgnum and gets nicer green colors…….aometimes the orchid spahgnum is horribly ugly…albeit needed to conserve surface moisture in a bonsai pot…stuff degrades too and makes a mess.
CHECK THE ROOTS IN A 2” Grodan Mini-Block!!!
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cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
TRANSPLANTS STARTING TO SETTLE AND LOOK NICE.
Things are getting a nice color in the stonewool.
I also planted and will plant more of a late crop of Green Japanese Maple and Zelkova Serrata.
I can store in a plant freezer in my grow room or grow on over Winter some few.Although they could be saleable size come Autumn.
The Hornbeam have wonderful color and I have lots of seed in stratification,so perhaps that will be my Winter crop indoors.
I have decided with all of these I will experiment with reducing fertilizer NPK and slowing growth to see how it effects the plants roots and node size.I will definately say the effect has been quite pronounced on the Field Maple thus far.
I want high brix plants with stronger roots and smaller plant cells that are consideralbly more robust in habit.Make a nice starter.
My Japanese Black Pine Kabudachi seems ok in the Stonewool.I prefer the Gro Wool in shallow fabric pots as they are very aerated.
Fun experimentaion with all these hydro media.
Is DEFINATELY my preference for production purposes for sure.
Things are getting a nice color in the stonewool.
I also planted and will plant more of a late crop of Green Japanese Maple and Zelkova Serrata.
I can store in a plant freezer in my grow room or grow on over Winter some few.Although they could be saleable size come Autumn.
The Hornbeam have wonderful color and I have lots of seed in stratification,so perhaps that will be my Winter crop indoors.
I have decided with all of these I will experiment with reducing fertilizer NPK and slowing growth to see how it effects the plants roots and node size.I will definately say the effect has been quite pronounced on the Field Maple thus far.
I want high brix plants with stronger roots and smaller plant cells that are consideralbly more robust in habit.Make a nice starter.
My Japanese Black Pine Kabudachi seems ok in the Stonewool.I prefer the Gro Wool in shallow fabric pots as they are very aerated.
Fun experimentaion with all these hydro media.
Is DEFINATELY my preference for production purposes for sure.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
ALREADY SOME NICE AIR-PRUNING IN THE GRODAN MINI-BLOCKS.
Nice to see the instant dissapearance of the tap root from air-pruning 1” below first leaves.……This media can save alot of unessesary uprooting and disturbance.
These Siberian Elm are really getting ready to grow….mid season or not lol.
Although I am going to stall them a bit…..they are getting root starter for another week or so………There is more and healthier roots and plant on slower growing…….especially at this sapling stage…..fact.
Also excited for the Japanes Maples,as I believe they will be better this time around being in the mini blocks.
I made a sunscreen.Will have many trays……see how big they get befor Autumn.
Can see a few seedling air layers ones there now.
Nice to see the instant dissapearance of the tap root from air-pruning 1” below first leaves.……This media can save alot of unessesary uprooting and disturbance.
These Siberian Elm are really getting ready to grow….mid season or not lol.
Although I am going to stall them a bit…..they are getting root starter for another week or so………There is more and healthier roots and plant on slower growing…….especially at this sapling stage…..fact.
Also excited for the Japanes Maples,as I believe they will be better this time around being in the mini blocks.
I made a sunscreen.Will have many trays……see how big they get befor Autumn.
Can see a few seedling air layers ones there now.
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
You are doing some really cool propagation @cmeg1!
Wondering how the rock wool would work on azalea cuttings…. and afterwards… considering fine root system and propensity to root rot …. viz a via the potential issue with having dissimilar media …. core vs exterior media once potted up?
I just finished my azalea whips grown from cuttings experiment - second year group of cuttings. 450 cuttings…. 45ish cultivars… definitely small time compared to your hefty operation
!
Love these experiments!
Cheers
DSD sends
Wondering how the rock wool would work on azalea cuttings…. and afterwards… considering fine root system and propensity to root rot …. viz a via the potential issue with having dissimilar media …. core vs exterior media once potted up?
I just finished my azalea whips grown from cuttings experiment - second year group of cuttings. 450 cuttings…. 45ish cultivars… definitely small time compared to your hefty operation
!Love these experiments!
Cheers
DSD sends
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Interesting stuff!You are doing some really cool propagation @cmeg1!
Wondering how the rock wool would work on azalea cuttings…. and afterwards… considering fine root system and propensity to root rot …. viz a via the potential issue with having dissimilar media …. core vs exterior media once potted up?
I just finished my azalea whips grown from cuttings experiment - second year group of cuttings. 450 cuttings…. 45ish cultivars… definitely small time compared to your hefty operation
View attachment 390860
Love these experiments!
Cheers
DSD sends
Honestly these block are awesom……..eapecially ebb and flo.
Now a plant can stay in the blocks quite long since air pruning……perhaps try 2” block for longer stay.
As far as surrounding media,I would stay with an inert media like perlite or something…when the plants are big and the cube is full of roots there is just not an issue with sureounding media difference…For inner and outer consistency try the mini Grow Cubes…..they are 1/4” and come in a bag…excellent media for indoors.Watchout as there is a bigger 1/2” size thats a bit much.
The Grow Wool I am using outside takes a bit of practice,but good nontheless.
Mini blocks are a breeze…especially ebb and flow……highly recommended……a storage container a nice grow tray( most expensive part) and two fitting and a pump……Water last for weeks and just continually add as the block suck it up.
Highly recomend an outsoor ebb and flo…….Also 3” blocks are great for growing things on!!!
But definately ebb and flo outside……..was getting very tired of hand watering all these before.
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cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
@Deep Sea Diver
I simply use the trays to water them and they go back on the benches……time saved everywhere.
It is fun getting things outside too.
Good trays are important to me as they have recessed section for proper draining.
I simply use the trays to water them and they go back on the benches……time saved everywhere.
It is fun getting things outside too.
Good trays are important to me as they have recessed section for proper draining.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
@Deep Sea Diver
Its hard to kill a plant in the mini blocks…….dryness is still what kills the plants in them.
Every two days at germination and after a little size definately daily watering for sure.
I love the fact of moisture holding and not daily mixing of nutrient with ebb and flow
Its hard to kill a plant in the mini blocks…….dryness is still what kills the plants in them.
Every two days at germination and after a little size definately daily watering for sure.
I love the fact of moisture holding and not daily mixing of nutrient with ebb and flow
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
It’s great work you are doing and fun to read. I’ll definitely have to think hard about this application to azaleas. Presently I’m maxed out as of this latest propagation run, last year’s and the ’19 satsuki.
Azaleas really don’t need air pruning due to their propensity of growing plentiful fiberous roots on their one. So Air pots for them are counterproductive, even harmful.
One of the hard parts for azaleas is delicately combing out the rats nest of roots when transitioning from a nursery mix to kanuma. The simple way would be just to grow out in kanuma from the gitgo, but some good data exists that the peat/perlite mix is most productive. It’s another question for me to address when uppotting this September as my initial uppotting tests show stalled growth of young cutting when uppotting in kanuma followed by healthy robust growth about a month later. In contrast, properly done nursery mix uppots just keep on growing.. Worth another set of trials.
The original test run was to see if growing out and styling azalea whips in my area is possible without a greenhouse. So that looks like a yes, with a cold frame and or garage set up. I estimate the trials will take five years to get to achieving styling trunks and starting the secondary development.
Now I have to consider what the next growing out phase will look like. Ground, pot or both. I have limited space here.
The other question is explore various styling techniques from different age nursery azaleas. Lots been done before so I’m covering old ground, yet the practical aspects, including what works, what doesn’t and what horticultural faux paux to avoid are important for me to learn.
Anyways I just thought I’d touch base to let you know yourwork is really cool.
cheers
DSD sends
Azaleas really don’t need air pruning due to their propensity of growing plentiful fiberous roots on their one. So Air pots for them are counterproductive, even harmful.
One of the hard parts for azaleas is delicately combing out the rats nest of roots when transitioning from a nursery mix to kanuma. The simple way would be just to grow out in kanuma from the gitgo, but some good data exists that the peat/perlite mix is most productive. It’s another question for me to address when uppotting this September as my initial uppotting tests show stalled growth of young cutting when uppotting in kanuma followed by healthy robust growth about a month later. In contrast, properly done nursery mix uppots just keep on growing.. Worth another set of trials.
The original test run was to see if growing out and styling azalea whips in my area is possible without a greenhouse. So that looks like a yes, with a cold frame and or garage set up. I estimate the trials will take five years to get to achieving styling trunks and starting the secondary development.
Now I have to consider what the next growing out phase will look like. Ground, pot or both. I have limited space here.
The other question is explore various styling techniques from different age nursery azaleas. Lots been done before so I’m covering old ground, yet the practical aspects, including what works, what doesn’t and what horticultural faux paux to avoid are important for me to learn.
Anyways I just thought I’d touch base to let you know yourwork is really cool.
cheers
DSD sends
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Zelkova Brooms
My initial journey into bonsai started with trying to make zelkova broomstyle.These have been dubbed the slingshot method by many.
These are sprouting in very weak light now so they elongate consideralbly befor the normal junction into the ‘V ‘ branching zelkova naturally do……..hopefully about 8” will be nice…..will have tons of these
My initial journey into bonsai started with trying to make zelkova broomstyle.These have been dubbed the slingshot method by many.
These are sprouting in very weak light now so they elongate consideralbly befor the normal junction into the ‘V ‘ branching zelkova naturally do……..hopefully about 8” will be nice…..will have tons of these
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
ZELKOVA BROOMS ….jist of the idea
so here are pictures from about 6-8 yrs ago when I was relatively having success making these albeit they always perished from inproper nutrition.
Can get an idea of what will happen from viewing these pictures in order/sequence of process.
They span about 2.5 yrs…..quite quick results!!!
so here are pictures from about 6-8 yrs ago when I was relatively having success making these albeit they always perished from inproper nutrition.
Can get an idea of what will happen from viewing these pictures in order/sequence of process.
They span about 2.5 yrs…..quite quick results!!!
hinmo24t
Masterpiece
awesome! you sold the blue-potted ones?
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Yes they from 6 yrs ago.These will look like this by Autumn and they are easy to make so releas for sale in Autum and next season.
Attachments
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Zelkova mini broom- initial stem stretching
I understand that deep shade is sufficient to get these to stretch before they branch off at first leaves,but I want to try and take to the next level.
It is understood in the study light recipe’s that blue enhanced spectrum light inhibits stem elongation and red enhanced spectrum will actually promote stem elongation.
So what I did was get swap out the t 5’s for and hlg led 3500k quantum board placed way above at 4.5’ and then also an hlg 60 red suppliment which actually has far reds too.
I dimmed the 3500k and added the red suppliment for a total of about 70-80 par throughout.That is very weak light…..I even use more than this for cuttings.
Now hopefully the future mini Broom style Zelkovas will stretch very tall befor the first leaves and get something interesting.
This is a fun project.
Below are the two combined spectum I’m using.
I understand that deep shade is sufficient to get these to stretch before they branch off at first leaves,but I want to try and take to the next level.
It is understood in the study light recipe’s that blue enhanced spectrum light inhibits stem elongation and red enhanced spectrum will actually promote stem elongation.
So what I did was get swap out the t 5’s for and hlg led 3500k quantum board placed way above at 4.5’ and then also an hlg 60 red suppliment which actually has far reds too.
I dimmed the 3500k and added the red suppliment for a total of about 70-80 par throughout.That is very weak light…..I even use more than this for cuttings.
Now hopefully the future mini Broom style Zelkovas will stretch very tall befor the first leaves and get something interesting.
This is a fun project.
Below are the two combined spectum I’m using.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Will plant more of these
These are easy to plant.I should get straight stems since these are pionted into the stonewool already sprouting with no twisting at germination that can frequently occur.
These are easy to plant.I should get straight stems since these are pionted into the stonewool already sprouting with no twisting at germination that can frequently occur.
