Opposing Thoughts and Practices on Bonsai for Beginners

[LAS]

Why are you coming at me because I said chloramimes are bad for mycelium? I firmly know that they are. So, if you want to water with tap water, good for you. I’ve got no problem with that. Im not questioning your bonsai master status. I don’t like that approach. That’s how I do it. To each their own. So I’m supposed to get chastised by you for saying chloramimes crush fungal populations? Ok, you win big man. You’re right. Chloramimes are good for mycelium.

 

[Flowerhouse]

In the future i'd like to collect rainwater, but i don't have the means right now.

I'd like to collect rainwater, too, but I don't have the RAIN right now.

 

[LAS]

Well apparently the mycorrhiza in my pines are super fungi because I water with county chlorinated/chloromine tap water every day for 11 years and every time I repot, there is tons of it in the soil.
Sometimes the mycorrhiza is so thick, it starts clogging the drain holes

In what way am I twisting any of your words? You say “chloramine crushes fungal population”. You do realize that nobody is pouring undiluted industrial strength chloramine onto their plants, right?

People water their plants with tap water. The municipality that delivers the tap water treats it with chloramine. According to the water quality report of the municipality where I live, the maximum allowable concentration of chloramine is 4 ppm. I’m not sure if that maximum is set nationally by the EPA or if it’s determined at the state level. In either case, the average amount actually present in the water is 2.1 ppm, according to their report. Chloramine, at the levels actually present in the water that people use, is the only form that has any relevance to the discussion. My experience (and that of many others) is that any effect on beneficial microbes and fungi in the context of growing little trees in pots is negligible.

If chloramine, at the levels delivered in municipal tap water, actually “crushes fungal population” as you claim, then why are my Japanese white pines, Japanese black pines, ponderosa pines, red pines, etc. thriving despite being watered regularly with chloraminated water? It’s well known that pines are heavily dependent on mycorrhizae to extract nutrients from the soil. If my fungal population is crushed, why aren’t my pines dying?

I didn’t say tap water crushes fungal populations like you keep saying I did. Just cuz you say something over and over doesnt make it true. I dont want 2 ppm of chloramine. Im moving on. I hope you can too.

 

[Lorax7]

Why are you coming at me because I said chloramimes are bad for mycelium? I firmly know that they are. So, if you want to water with tap water, good for you. I’ve got no problem with that. Im not questioning your bonsai master status. I don’t like that approach. That’s how I do it. To each their own. So I’m supposed to get chastised by you for saying chloramimes crush fungal populations? Ok, you win big man. You’re right. Chloramimes are good for mycelium.

I'm coming not at you but at the disinformation that you're promoting. This is a discussion thread about bonsai practices for beginners. When you say that "chloramines crush fungal populations", you are implying to beginning bonsai practitioners that they shouldn't be watering their bonsai with their municipal tap water. That's a bunch of nonsense and I'm absolutely going to call you out on it. I don't give a damn if you only use water drawn from an artesian well and blessed by the Dalai Lama in your own personal garden. Whatever floats your boat, man. But if you come onto this forum and tell other people that their tap water is bad and that they, too, should water their bonsai with artesian well water blessed by the Dalai Lama, I'm going to call you out on that bullshit.

 

[Lorax7]

I didn’t say tap water crushes fungal populations like you keep saying I did. Just cuz you say something over and over doesnt make it true. I dont want 2 ppm of chloramine. Im moving on. I hope you can too

You do realize that nobody is watering their bonsai with undiluted chloramine, right?
The only way that chloramine is getting onto anybody's bonsai is via tap water that has been treated with chloramine. If chloraminated tap water doesn't crush fungal populations, then whatever argument you were making about chloramine has no relevance whatsoever to the real-world situation of people watering bonsai.

 

[LAS]

The only bullshit here is your self righteous attitude. At no point did I imply that newbie shouldn’t use tap water.

To everyone else: sorry about this stupid banter.

 

[Godschick]

Is it just me or is there irony in the fact that I started this post with the title “opposing thoughts and practices on Bonsai” and this is where it is currently? Just trying to lighten the mood guys Carry on though

 

[LAS]

Is it just me or is there irony in the fact that I started this post with the title “opposing thoughts and practices on Bonsai” and this is where it is currently? Just trying to lighten the mood guys Carry on though

Much appreciated man. Well thought out title.

 

[Lorax7]

The only bullshit here is your self righteous attitude. At no point did I imply that newbie shouldn’t use tap water.

To everyone else: sorry about this stupid banter.

The problem is that will not get rid of the chloramines. Which are the worse than chlorine.

You absolutely did. You described not getting rid of the chloramines from tap water as a "problem". It's not a problem. Tap water is fine with the chloramines in it.

 

[LAS]

Is it just me or is there irony in the fact that I started this post with the title “opposing thoughts and practices on Bonsai” and this is where it is currently? Just trying to lighten the mood guys Carry on though

I think a big opposing thought, or at least one that keeps evolving in my own head, is the choice of growing a tree out and doing a big chop versus starting them in small pots from the beginning. I used to despise the idea of those big scars. Then I started getting into carving.

Very artistic carving job I recently saw:

 

[Carol 83]

I'd like to collect rainwater, too, but I don't have the RAIN right now.

You could have some of ours! We got 5 inches one day last week and more storms and heavy rain last night. Totally abnormal for here this time of year.

 

[Godschick]

You could have some of ours! We got 5 inches one day last week and more storms and heavy rain last night. Totally abnormal for here this time of year

Lucky you! I would love to get some rain, I haven’t seen a drop since March.

 

[LAS]

Lucky you! I would love to get some rain, I haven’t seen a drop since March.

Since March? Brutal

 

[sorce]

It would be more informative to ponder the things folks are doing to mitigate the negative effects of Chloramine that are 100% fact.



Sorce

 

[Lorax7]

It would be more informative to ponder the things folks are doing to mitigate the negative effects of Chloramine that are 100% fact.

View attachment 450200

Sorce

Unattributed chemophobic hippie claptrap… pretty much exactly what I expect from you, which is why I normally have you on ignore. I’m not sure why I clicked on the link to show hidden posts. Morbid curiosity, perhaps.

 

[sorce]

Meanwhile, poked folks still getting that RoRo and the Lord's protection keeping believers healthy AF.

Avoiding the lion because it will kill you does not infer fear of the lion.

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

Well-referenced page, which might be usefull for people that are usure what to believe and who to listen to:

Chlorine, Chloramine and Plants - Everything You Need to Know

You have probably heard that chlorine in tap water is harmful to plants. Some cities have switched to using chloramine in tap water and that is also a concern for plants because it is much harder to remove before watering indoor plants. What is the difference between chlorine and chloramine...

www.gardenmyths.com

 

[rockm]

I’m not about to argue with you. I know the effect of chloramine on mycelium. My assertion was that chloramine crushes fungal population. You can twist words if you like. Doesn’t work with me. I don’t do chloramine in any quantity. Have a nice day

I've always used tap water for my trees (30 years worth). Water Has chlorine, chloramine, etc. I have myc in oaks, pines, hornbeams. Oaks have mushroom growth every spring/summer into fall, as do the hornbeam. Pic below shows some of the latest 'shrooms on a live oak...Mushrooms are the surface expression of myc growth in the soil. At repotting all have extensive myc webbing in their root masses (LOTS OF IT).

 

[LAS]

It appears that some people are trying to say that if you don’t do it their way you are an idiot. Ignore them. Truth is chloramine/chlorine is bad for microbial/fungal growth. If you think that the levels in tap water are negligible, then use tap water. If you want to do everything you can to maximize microbial/fungal growth, remove chlorine/chloramine. It’s your choice. If you have strong mycelial growth and you use tap water with chloramine, it would be stronger without chloramine. Do whatever you want. Most importantly, don’t listen to blow hards who want to bully you into adopting their conforming mantras.

 

[sorce]

Except "not toxic to plants" can be perfectly true yet still not the point.

Not everyone, actually quite few people are relying on the microbes that it does kill.

Those not relying on those microbes won't notice (only because it's deeply layered) their loss.

Those relying on those microbes will.....maybe.

Proof of mycorrhizae, loads of it in fact, maybe because so much is necessary to go out searching for the nitrogen left unavailable because of the death of the microbes.

Depends how you read it.

I don't claim to know everything about the subject because it's study is infant.

These claims of "proof" are terribly unscientific.

Sorce